August 13, 200818 yr Author Communism as it is understood today is a single party government system. You are describing some sort of anarcho-collectivist system. Marx and Christ have little, if anything, in common. Marx specifically criticized the societal results of capitalism, which was, in his view, a clear two-class system. He held that a worldwide revolution of the proletariat would bring about their ownership of the means of production. Religion, or Christ, dulled the would be anger of the working class into acceptance of their lot. As far as Jesus is concerned, Marx was right. We are not talking about communism as it is defined today, we are talking about communism as invisioned by Marx. The communism you are speaking of occurs only after its attempted implementation by Lenin hence Marxism/Leninism. If you read the Communist Manifesto he speaks of the government fading away b/c it was no longer needed. The community was all, Marx envisions a society where the first becomes last and the last becomes first. Granted his vision comes about as a violent overthrow, where Christ's vision of the last becoming first is not a result of a violent overthrow.
August 13, 200818 yr Why are you even talking about a govermnment and freedoms. In a communist society the GOVERNMENT GOES AWAY - it is not needed. The people work freely for one another, denying their greed and working for the betterment of society That is called Utopia (aka fool's paradise) and can never exist on this planet, because no matter how hard you try, human nature will not allow people to live this way. Some need to achieve, try new things, explore. In a Utopian society achievement no longer exsits because you believe that the perfect society has been created and you are a heretic if you try to upset the apple cart.
August 13, 200818 yr That is called Utopia (aka fool's paradise) and can never exist on this planet, because no matter how hard you try, human nature will not allow people to live this way. Some need to achieve, try new things, explore. In a Utopian society achievement no longer exsits because you believe that the perfect society has been created and you are a heretic if you try to upset the apple cart. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong! In a Utopia you can still explore, create, and achieve;but it all goes for the greater good.
August 13, 200818 yr We are not talking about communism as it is defined today, we are talking about communism as invisioned by Marx. The communism you are speaking of occurs only after its attempted implementation by Lenin hence Marxism/Leninism. If you read the Communist Manifesto he speaks of the government fading away b/c it was no longer needed. The community was all, Marx envisions a society where the first becomes last and the last becomes first. Granted his vision comes about as a violent overthrow, where Christ's vision of the last becoming first is not a result of a violent overthrow. In theory communism can work. That is all I hear. It is a theory that human nature will not allow it to work. Look at he few attempts in the world that tried to create these perfect societies, when the 2nd and 3rd generations came along they want nothing to with what the founders of the community had hoped to create. These societies stifle creativity, not encourage it, because if you try to step outside the accepted dogma your in trouble and told told to get back into line. Therefore the government never goes away.
August 13, 200818 yr Wrong, Wrong, Wrong! In a Utopia you can still explore, create, and achieve;but it all goes for the greater good. It cannot exist as man is not perfect and that is what Utopia is supposed to be, perfect.
August 13, 200818 yr Author That is called Utopia (aka fool's paradise) and can never exist on this planet, because no matter how hard you try, human nature will not allow people to live this way. Some need to achieve, try new things, explore. In a Utopian society achievement no longer exsits because you believe that the perfect society has been created and you are a heretic if you try to upset the apple cart. Does Christ not ask us to turn away from our HUMAN nature? I would say that Christ would be okay with us "achieving" as long as we were denying ourselves along the way and achieving to help the community. Does he not say to "deny yourself"
August 13, 200818 yr That is called Utopia (aka fool's paradise) and can never exist on this planet, because no matter how hard you try, human nature will not allow people to live this way. Some need to achieve, try new things, explore. In a Utopian society achievement no longer exsits because you believe that the perfect society has been created and you are a heretic if you try to upset the apple cart. What you're saying is sort of like, ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS;) Edited August 13, 200818 yr by shamrock fan
August 13, 200818 yr We are not talking about communism as it is defined today, we are talking about communism as invisioned by Marx. The communism you are speaking of occurs only after its attempted implementation by Lenin hence Marxism/Leninism. If you read the Communist Manifesto he speaks of the government fading away b/c it was no longer needed. The community was all, Marx envisions a society where the first becomes last and the last becomes first. Marx demands the abolition of private property in The Communist Manifesto, though he does not hold the same requirement of the state, which he attributes significant power to (taxation, ownership of property, education, et al.). Das Kapital is more specific, but ultimately Marx theorizes a state, global in nature, ruled by a single class of the proletariat. Granted his vision comes about as a violent overthrow, where Christ's vision of the last becoming first is not a result of a violent overthrow. Christ is transcendental: Love one another and "give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's." I would imagine Christ being quite unconcerned with social class, revolution, or the means of production, which is all Marx was concerned with.
August 13, 200818 yr What you're saying is sort of like, ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS;) All people are created equal, but the differnce is what each individual does with their talents. Sorry if it came across sounding different. In addition,in a Utopian society one thinks that it will allow for a burst of creativity, but it will not. Maybe some at first, because people are motivated by being rewarded or by fear. The reward is the monetary payoff and/or fame, the fear is the worry of going hungry. These things are what motivate people. A few may have altruistic movtives, but they are few.
August 13, 200818 yr "From each according to his(her) ability, to each according to his(her) need." "Sell everything you own and give the money to the poor" "Blessed are the poor for theirs is the kingdom God." How is the basic philosophy of Marx (outside of his hatred for the Christian religion) different from some of the teachings of Jesus?? BTW, any know why Karl disliked Christians so much??? One is done voluntarily (a choice). One is FORCED. In this I am "pro-choice".
August 13, 200818 yr What you're saying is sort of like, ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS;) Nobody else seems to get your quote and humor shamrock. I thought I'd let you know I did and I love Orwell. :thumb:
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