Women and Leadership in the Church

[ladiesbballcoach]

:thumb:

So, women still can't serve as leaders in the church?

 

To quote a previous poster.....define leaders.:sssh::lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They cannot serve as elders or deacons but serve as leaders in several different versions.

 

They teach class, they run programs, they coach on upward sports teams, they organize projects but they cannot serve as elders or deacons.

 

As AL alluded to, we all have our roles to serve. Rather than be upset that we cannot do what someone else's role is, do our role the best we can. But our human nature of "I want what they have instead of what I have" gets in our way.

[Hatz]

Leadership position is like the Apostles position where they make decisions that affect the church long term and focus on the vision and direction of the church.

 

That is different than a deacon or serving position that might teach, lead committee work, run the Outreach program, etc, etc.

 

I thought scripture indicated that the Apostle's position ended with Paul or the last of the apostles. There are no more apostles so there can be no more of those positions.

 

Now if we want to talk Elders or Deacons that is a different story.

[rockmom]

To quote a previous poster.....define leaders.:sssh::lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They cannot serve as elders or deacons but serve as leaders in several different versions.

 

They teach class, they run programs, they coach on upward sports teams, they organize projects but they cannot serve as elders or deacons.

 

As AL alluded to, we all have our roles to serve. Rather than be upset that we cannot do what someone else's role is, do our role the best we can. But our human nature of "I want what they have instead of what I have" gets in our way.

 

Let's discuss this further, if you don't mind. Contrary to my questions in this thread, I believe, as a Catholic is directed, that men are called by God to be priests, and the supporting scripture is much of the same as has been cited.

 

There are often people who condemn the Church for this belief. However, I think what you've posted is important in understanding that there are important roles that women do and can fulfill, and that they may be spiritual leaders, without being the ultimate authority.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I thought scripture indicated that the Apostle's position ended with Paul or the last of the apostles. There are no more apostles so there can be no more of those positions.

 

Now if we want to talk Elders or Deacons that is a different story.

 

Read the post above yours.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Let's discuss this further, if you don't mind. Contrary to my questions in this thread, I believe, as a Catholic is directed, that men are called by God to be priests, and the supporting scripture is much of the same as has been cited.

 

There are often people who condemn the Church for this belief. However, I think what you've posted is important in understanding that there are important roles that women do and can fulfill, and that they may be spiritual leaders, without being the ultimate authority.

 

If you are saying what I think you are saying, I concur.

 

We agreed twice in a week.:thumb:

[Hatz]

To quote a previous poster.....define leaders.:sssh::lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They cannot serve as elders or deacons but serve as leaders in several different versions.

 

They teach class, they run programs, they coach on upward sports teams, they organize projects but they cannot serve as elders or deacons.

 

As AL alluded to, we all have our roles to serve. Rather than be upset that we cannot do what someone else's role is, do our role the best we can. But our human nature of "I want what they have instead of what I have" gets in our way.

 

What do you do with 1 Timothy 3:11?

 

8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.

 

11In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.

 

 

That word that is translated as "wives" is a Greek word that has a substantial backing for being translated as "likewise women should be ..." This means there are some questions about whether Paul is saying that a woman can and was called as a deacon just as a man was earlier.

 

Likewise Paul must have had some idea and feeling that God found this okay for why else does he commend Phoebe in Romans 16 as a deacon? If he disagree with the practice it is hard to believe that Paul would have commended her or mentioned her at all other to castigate the church for having a woman as a deacon.

[rockmom]

If you are saying what I think you are saying, I concur.

 

We agreed twice in a week.:thumb:

 

 

Technically, 2 1/2. :lol:

[ladiesbballcoach]

What do you do with 1 Timothy 3:11?

 

8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.

 

11In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.

 

 

That word that is translated as "wives" is a Greek word that has a substantial backing for being translated as "likewise women should be ..." This means there are some questions about whether Paul is saying that a woman can and was called as a deacon just as a man was earlier.

 

Likewise Paul must have had some idea and feeling that God found this okay for why else does he commend Phoebe in Romans 16 as a deacon? If he disagree with the practice it is hard to believe that Paul would have commended her or mentioned her at all other to castigate the church for having a woman as a deacon.

 

Some questions than it would seem that it is not for sure, so I would follow on what Jesus modeled and that was not having women to serve in the apostle position which were the authortative leaders of the first church.

 

As far as Phoebe, I went through this study when the Da Vinci Code movie came out and remember that we studied this situation and remember I was comfortable with our elders view of this situation and it not supporting deaconess today. But for the life of me, cannot remember what that view was now. Sorry.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Technically, 2 1/2. :lol:

 

See, we cannot even agree that we are agreeing but rather are disagreeing on whether we are agreeing.

[rockmom]

See, we cannot even agree that we are agreeing but rather are disagreeing on whether we are agreeing.

 

 

No...we agree...I just prefer to count the 50% agreement from the sin thread as a part of the statistic.

[Hatz]

Some questions than it would seem that it is not for sure, so I would follow on what Jesus modeled and that was not having women to serve in the apostle position which were the authortative leaders of the first church.

 

As far as Phoebe, I went through this study when the Da Vinci Code movie came out and remember that we studied this situation and remember I was comfortable with our elders view of this situation and it not supporting deaconess today. But for the life of me, cannot remember what that view was now. Sorry.

 

That's okay, I can't remember last week. :lol:

 

We will just agree to disagree but it's always good to discuss with you LBBC. :thumb:

[Hatz]

Found this discussion that was pretty good:

 

http://www.new-life.net/faq404.htm

 

One point that was raised explained some of what I interpret:

 

Q: The word "diakonos" is not mentioned in 1 Timothy 3:11. And whether this passage refers to deaconesses or "wives of deacons" is a hotly debated issue among conservative scholars. Most translations have a footnote explaining the alternate translation. Why do you think it refers to women deacons?

 

A: Let me summarize. Since the 1 Timothy 3 passage is unclear on this particular point on who "the women" are, then a decision must be made using the weight of circumstantial evidence.

 

I think that it is highly probable that Paul meant women deacons, because:

 

1. The wives of elders are not mentioned in 1 Timothy 3. If Paul meant deacons' wives, he surely would have said something about elders' wives.

 

2. There is nothing inherent in the activities or position of deacons that precludes women. It violates no other command in Scripture for women to handle money or to serve others in the church.

 

3. In Romans 16:1, mention is made of a woman named Phoebe who is called a diakonos from a particular local church.

 

4. We have a reference to "women in Ecclesiastical orders" from AD 196 (Tertullian, ON EXHORTATION TO CHASTITY, chapter 13), an early 3rd century church record of women holding an official position of deacon with an actual list of their duties (Didascalia), and late fourth century church manual with a section concerning women deacons (Apostolic Constitutions).

[jahearme]

To quote a previous poster.....define leaders.:sssh::lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They cannot serve as elders or deacons but serve as leaders in several different versions.

 

They teach class, they run programs, they coach on upward sports teams, they organize projects but they cannot serve as elders or deacons.

 

As AL alluded to, we all have our roles to serve. Rather than be upset that we cannot do what someone else's role is, do our role the best we can. But our human nature of "I want what they have instead of what I have" gets in our way.

 

They can at every church I've ever attended.

[kystraydog]

Does not matter what you or I think. Cause I think similar thoughts.

 

But Scripture indicates different and that is what Christians are to follow. Scripture, not what you and I think.

 

If I attend a church who would be willing to throw out Scripture and rather choose to side with what LBBC thinks. I personally would look for another church.:thumb: (I know many of you will be quick to agree.)

 

Well if my memory serves me wasn't it Emperor Constatine who decided what books were to go into the Bible? I believe womens roles could have been more included in the church at one time but no one will really know what might have been in the other biblical books. Unsure about the facts here but it does give one something to think about.

[Hearsay]

To quote a previous poster.....define leaders.:sssh::lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They cannot serve as elders or deacons but serve as leaders in several different versions.

 

They teach class, they run programs, they coach on upward sports teams, they organize projects but they cannot serve as elders or deacons.

 

As AL alluded to, we all have our roles to serve. Rather than be upset that we cannot do what someone else's role is, do our role the best we can. But our human nature of "I want what they have instead of what I have" gets in our way.

 

Again, I ask you, how do you get around Phoebe, in scripture, being a deacon? Paul used the word diakonos, the same word used for the first deacons in Acts. If Phoebe was a deacon, how can we just ignore scripture?

 

Larry called them "helpmates" but that is not the word scripture used.