My opinion doesn't matter one bit but the bible says that women should not have authority over a man (in the assembly). If you want verses let me know.

 

I do!

I touched on the "women at the tomb" but people just read over my comments. "See I saw the tape". I'll keep trying.

 

Glad to see Mary and the women at the tomb, and yes Jesus told Mary to find the disciples and tell them, but does this give her authority to lead a service?

 

I belong to a Southern Baptist Church, but I'm a Christians first and foremost. There are no Baptists in heaven. There are no Blacks/Whites in heaven.

 

I am Southern Baptist although I am inbetween on the issue! BTW, did't God create everyone equal?

I do!

 

I don't have my sword (bible) with me here at work, I will post some scriptures tonight.

Cats, I mentioned in heaven there is only one. Everybody is equal, just like on earth. We all have different roles/gifts/talents/duties. I'd love to be able to speak at a church, but I talk like I type.

Trojan, keep a New Testament in your back pocket. Peter said always be ready to give an account on your faith.

Cats, I mentioned in heaven there is only one. Everybody is equal, just like on earth. We all have different roles/gifts/talents/duties. I'd love to be able to speak at a church, but I talk like I type.

 

So, all get the same rewards???

 

Isn't it thought that the 12 apostles and 12 tribe leaders (Jospeh and his brothers) have some role in judging the 12 tribes?

 

I would not call that equal.

 

I don't have a problem with it but wouldn't call it equal.

I do!

 

Let me say that it is a joy to talk with people who are interested in seeing what the bible has to say. I am glad you posed this question because I actually need to do some more research on this topic. I will give you a few verses and thoughts but I also want to say that if I say anything that is not in accoradance with scripture please be my friend and point it out to me.

 

The main two passages dealing with a womans role in the church are 1 Cor

14:34-35 and 1 Tim 2:11-15.

 

I would also recommend reading the both chapters to gain context. I believe that it is easier and more applicable toward today to examine the 1 Timothy passage because it appears that the Corinthians passage is in relation to spiritual gifts such as interpreters, tongues, prophecies, etc (which those certain gifts have now ceased) and as a specific instance to one church in Cornith.

 

When reading the 1 Timothy passage it seems to be a universal application that simply says "let a woman learn in silence with all submission, and I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."

 

On passages like this it is often helpful to see what the original Greek words are. Some of us looked up the Greek on this passage for the word "silence" and the actual Greek is defined to be more of a meekness and quietness than a total silence (i.e. not making a sound). Either way the message behind the passage is that a woman should not have authority over a man. Some people would ask would authority is.

 

I would say if we looked at it in our day to day lifes it is pretty easy to understand. For example parents teach their children to have respect for authority figures such as schoolteachers. If you a consider a situation such as a semiar at work who has authority during the seminar? The speaker. How does this apply to church? It is simple, a woman should not be in a position of authortiy over a man. This would include teaching, preaching, performing a leadership role, etc.

 

On another note, if you look at the qualifications of our church leaders in the next chapter (1 Tim 3) the elders are said to "men" and also the "husband" of one wife.

 

Does this mean that men and women are not equal in God's kingdom? Of course not! We know that God is no respecter of persons. He simply assigns different roles to different people. We know that is the OT priests had to be from the tribe of Levi. Does that mean that the tribe of Levi is more important in God's eyes than the other tribes of Isreal? Certainly not! We know that great men such as David and even Jesus Christ didn't come from the tribe of Levi but from the tribe of Judah.

 

I guess I have said enough for one post.

Ladies, you misunderstood the term "Equal". Equal as sex and as race which I mentioned. I said nothing about "Rewards" which is totally different, and I could do a whole new thread about rewards in heaven.

 

Anybody want to do one with me? Remember...I type like I talk.

I am Southern Baptist although I am inbetween on the issue! BTW, did't God create everyone equal?

 

You've initiated a very interesting topic for discussion. It reminded me of an article that I read (and kept) several years ago on Billy Graham's daughter, Anne Graham Lotz. In the May 1, 2000 issue of Time, David Van Biema wrote the story, "The Preacher's Daughter." There were several quotes in the article by Michael Maudlin of Christianity Today and William Martin, Billy's biographer. "Even Billy says she's the best preacher in the family." ("I agree," says Franklin.) Yet the plaudit carried an asterisk. At a 1988 pastors' conference, many in Lotz' audience ostentatiously turned their chairs around so as not to face a preaching woman. Says Martin: "There was no chance of her taking [the leadership] role in the BGEA hierarchy because she's the daughter instead of the son." In fact, despite being on the BGEA board, Lotz has only once had a major part in a Crusade."

The picture of Billy Graham's daughter, at the podium, having to speak to rebelling pastors who've turned their chairs and backs on her etched an indelible image in my mind. What if the members in these guys' churches showed such disrespect to them during a Sunday morning sermon? How would they feel? Not only Anne, but how do you think Billy and Franklin and the rest of the family felt? And, most of all, how do you think God felt watching this display of disrespect? That was a fine example of senior pastoral leadership to the young associate and youth pastors in the crowd. So, Anne still chooses not to be ordained and calls herself a Bible expositor not a preacher, and her "Just Give Me Jesus" theme is technically aimed at women. The article ends with Lotz saying, "When people have a problem with women in the ministry, they need to take it up with Jesus. He's the one who put us here." Enough said.

To add to this discussion, let me ask a question.

 

Did Joseph have any sisters? Or were there ONLY 12 siblings, total.

 

If only 12 siblings, why would God make them all men?

Yes, Joseph did have a sister...her name was Dinah.

Genesis 46:5-27

Then Jacob arose from Beersheba; and the sons of Israel carried their father Jacob, their little ones, and their wives, in the carts which Pharaoh had sent to carry him. So they took their livestock and their goods, which they had acquired in the land of Canaan, and went to Egypt, Jacob and all his descendants with him. His sons and his sons’ sons, his daughters and his sons’ daughters, and all his descendants he brought with him to Egypt. Now these were the names of the children of Israel, Jacob and his sons, who went to Egypt: Reuben was Jacob’s firstborn. The sons of Reuben were Hanoch, Pallu, Hezron, and Carmi. The sons of Simeon were Jemuel, Jamin, Ohad, Jachin, Zohar, and Shaul, the son of a Canaanite woman. The sons of Levi were Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. The sons of Judah were Er, Onan, Shelah, Perez, and Zerah (but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan). The sons of Perez were Hezron and Hamul. The sons of Issachar were Tola, Puvah, Job, and Shimron. The sons of Zebulun were Sered, Elon, and Jahleel. These were the sons of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob in Padan Aram, with his daughter Dinah. All the persons, his sons and his daughters, were thirty-three. The sons of Gad were Ziphion, Haggi, Shuni, Ezbon, Eri, Arodi, and Areli. The sons of Asher were Jimnah, Ishuah, Isui, Beriah, and Serah, their sister. And the sons of Beriah were Heber and Malchiel. These were the sons of Zilpah, whom Laban gave to Leah his daughter; and these she bore to Jacob: sixteen persons. The sons of Rachel, Jacob’s wife, were Joseph and Benjamin. And to Joseph in the land of Egypt were born Manasseh and Ephraim, whom Asenath, the daughter of Poti-Pherah priest of On, bore to him. The sons of Benjamin were Belah, Becher, Ashbel, Gera, Naaman, Ehi, Rosh, Muppim, Huppim, and Ard. These were the sons of Rachel, who were born to Jacob: fourteen persons in all. The son of Dan was Hushim. The sons of Naphtali were Jahzeel, Guni, Jezer, and Shillem. These were the sons of Bilhah, whom Laban gave to Rachel his daughter, and she bore these to Jacob: seven persons in all. All the persons who went with Jacob to Egypt, who came from his body, besides Jacob’s sons’ wives, were sixty-six persons in all. And the sons of Joseph who were born to him in Egypt were two persons. All the persons of the house of Jacob who went to Egypt were seventy.

Yes, Joseph did have a sister...her name was Dinah.

Genesis 46:5-27

Then Jacob arose from Beersheba; and the sons of Israel carried their father Jacob, their little ones, and their wives, in the carts which Pharaoh had sent to carry him. So they took their livestock and their goods, which they had acquired in the land of Canaan, and went to Egypt, Jacob and all his descendants with him. His sons and his sons’ sons, his daughters and his sons’ daughters, and all his descendants he brought with him to Egypt. Now these were the names of the children of Israel, Jacob and his sons, who went to Egypt: Reuben was Jacob’s firstborn. The sons of Reuben were Hanoch, Pallu, Hezron, and Carmi. The sons of Simeon were Jemuel, Jamin, Ohad, Jachin, Zohar, and Shaul, the son of a Canaanite woman. The sons of Levi were Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. The sons of Judah were Er, Onan, Shelah, Perez, and Zerah (but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan). The sons of Perez were Hezron and Hamul. The sons of Issachar were Tola, Puvah, Job, and Shimron. The sons of Zebulun were Sered, Elon, and Jahleel. These were the sons of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob in Padan Aram, with his daughter Dinah. All the persons, his sons and his daughters, were thirty-three. The sons of Gad were Ziphion, Haggi, Shuni, Ezbon, Eri, Arodi, and Areli. The sons of Asher were Jimnah, Ishuah, Isui, Beriah, and Serah, their sister. And the sons of Beriah were Heber and Malchiel. These were the sons of Zilpah, whom Laban gave to Leah his daughter; and these she bore to Jacob: sixteen persons. The sons of Rachel, Jacob’s wife, were Joseph and Benjamin. And to Joseph in the land of Egypt were born Manasseh and Ephraim, whom Asenath, the daughter of Poti-Pherah priest of On, bore to him. The sons of Benjamin were Belah, Becher, Ashbel, Gera, Naaman, Ehi, Rosh, Muppim, Huppim, and Ard. These were the sons of Rachel, who were born to Jacob: fourteen persons in all. The son of Dan was Hushim. The sons of Naphtali were Jahzeel, Guni, Jezer, and Shillem. These were the sons of Bilhah, whom Laban gave to Rachel his daughter, and she bore these to Jacob: seven persons in all. All the persons who went with Jacob to Egypt, who came from his body, besides Jacob’s sons’ wives, were sixty-six persons in all. And the sons of Joseph who were born to him in Egypt were two persons. All the persons of the house of Jacob who went to Egypt were seventy.

 

Why did God not put the sisters as leaders of any tribes?

They had other very important roles.

It is true the Old Testament doesn’t discuss many women in leadership positions, but the ones that it does discuss tend to be described in vivid terms. I've got three listed below:

 

The first woman in the Bible to be given the appellation prophetess was Miriam, the sister of Moses and Aaron. The title appears in Exodus when Miriam leads the women of the Israelites in a victory chant after the destruction of pharaoh’s army in the Red Sea:

 

20Then Miriam the prophetess, Aaron’s sister, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women followed her, with tambourines and dancing. 21Miriam sang to them:

“Sing to the LORD,

for he is highly exalted.

The horse and its rider

he has hurled into the sea.” (Exodus 15:20/21, NIV)

 

In Numbers 12:2, Miriam identifies herself as a prophet.

An even stronger claim is made for Miriam’s leadership position when she is identified by Micah as being part of the leadership triumvirate of Moses, Aaron and Miriam:

4 I brought you up out of Egypt

and redeemed you from the land of slavery.

I sent Moses to lead you,

also Aaron and Miriam. (Micah 6:4, NIV)

 

Perhaps the most powerful woman depicted in the Old Testament is Deborah the Judge. She is variously described as a judge, the leader of Israel, a prophetess, and a military leader. After Moses, only Samuel and Deborah combined all these qualities. The following verses in Judges attest to the first three aforementioned attributes:

“4Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time. 5She held court under the Palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites came to her to have their disputes decided.” (Judges 4:4/5, NIV)

Her talents as a military commander are described in the following verses in Judges 4, when she rallies the Israelites to defeat an army of a Canaanite King named Jabin. First she delivers a prophecy to her selected commander Barak: 6“The LORD, the God of Israel, commands you: ‘Go, take with you ten thousand men of Naphtali and Zebulun and lead the way to Mount Tabor. 7I will lure Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his troops to the Kishon River and give him into your hands.’” (Judges 4:6-7)

Barak agrees, but only after Deborah agrees to go with him. Deborah notes before the battle: “But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera [the Canaanite commander] over to a woman.” (Judges 4:9, NIV)

Deborah goes on to order the 10,000 man attack, and the Israelites are successful, killing all of their enemies.

 

Huldah the prophetess is probably the first person to declare a written document (probably the Book of Deuteronomy) to be Holy Scripture place during the reign of King Josiah, when workmen repairing the Temple of Solomon discover an old scroll. The High Priest Hilkiah knows an important find has been made, exclaiming:

“8Hilkiah the high priest said to Shaphan the secretary, “I have found the Book of the Law in the temple of the LORD.”” (2 Kings 22:8, NIV)

After the book is shared with King Josiah, Josiah charters his high priest and chief of state to find out more about the book, and its contents:

“Go and inquire of the LORD for me and for the people and for all Judah about what is written in this book that has been found.” (2 Kings 22:13, NIV)

 

The officers (including High Priest Hilkiah) choose to go to the home of Huldah the prophetess for further elucidation: “14Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Acbor, Shaphan and Asaiah went to speak to the prophetess Huldah, who was the wife of Shallum son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. She lived in Jerusalem, in the Second District.” (2 Kings 22:14, NIV)

The choice of Huldah as the authority to whom the chief priest goes is especially interesting in light of the fact that the prophets Jeremiah, Zephaniah, and Nahum all lived in the same area at the time. Yet Huldah was chosen.

 

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal 3: 26-28, NIV)

It is true the Old Testament doesn’t discuss many women in leadership positions, but the ones that it does discuss tend to be described in vivid terms. I've got three listed below:

 

The first woman in the Bible to be given the appellation prophetess was Miriam, the sister of Moses and Aaron. The title appears in Exodus when Miriam leads the women of the Israelites in a victory chant after the destruction of pharaoh’s army in the Red Sea:

 

20Then Miriam the prophetess, Aaron’s sister, took a tambourine in her hand, and all the women followed her, with tambourines and dancing. 21Miriam sang to them:

“Sing to the LORD,

for he is highly exalted.

The horse and its rider

he has hurled into the sea.” (Exodus 15:20/21, NIV)

 

In Numbers 12:2, Miriam identifies herself as a prophet.

An even stronger claim is made for Miriam’s leadership position when she is identified by Micah as being part of the leadership triumvirate of Moses, Aaron and Miriam:

4 I brought you up out of Egypt

and redeemed you from the land of slavery.

I sent Moses to lead you,

also Aaron and Miriam. (Micah 6:4, NIV)

 

Perhaps the most powerful woman depicted in the Old Testament is Deborah the Judge. She is variously described as a judge, the leader of Israel, a prophetess, and a military leader. After Moses, only Samuel and Deborah combined all these qualities. The following verses in Judges attest to the first three aforementioned attributes:

“4Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading Israel at that time. 5She held court under the Palm of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites came to her to have their disputes decided.” (Judges 4:4/5, NIV)

Her talents as a military commander are described in the following verses in Judges 4, when she rallies the Israelites to defeat an army of a Canaanite King named Jabin. First she delivers a prophecy to her selected commander Barak: 6“The LORD, the God of Israel, commands you: ‘Go, take with you ten thousand men of Naphtali and Zebulun and lead the way to Mount Tabor. 7I will lure Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s army, with his chariots and his troops to the Kishon River and give him into your hands.’” (Judges 4:6-7)

Barak agrees, but only after Deborah agrees to go with him. Deborah notes before the battle: “But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera [the Canaanite commander] over to a woman.” (Judges 4:9, NIV)

Deborah goes on to order the 10,000 man attack, and the Israelites are successful, killing all of their enemies.

 

Huldah the prophetess is probably the first person to declare a written document (probably the Book of Deuteronomy) to be Holy Scripture place during the reign of King Josiah, when workmen repairing the Temple of Solomon discover an old scroll. The High Priest Hilkiah knows an important find has been made, exclaiming:

“8Hilkiah the high priest said to Shaphan the secretary, “I have found the Book of the Law in the temple of the LORD.”” (2 Kings 22:8, NIV)

After the book is shared with King Josiah, Josiah charters his high priest and chief of state to find out more about the book, and its contents:

“Go and inquire of the LORD for me and for the people and for all Judah about what is written in this book that has been found.” (2 Kings 22:13, NIV)

 

The officers (including High Priest Hilkiah) choose to go to the home of Huldah the prophetess for further elucidation: “14Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Acbor, Shaphan and Asaiah went to speak to the prophetess Huldah, who was the wife of Shallum son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. She lived in Jerusalem, in the Second District.” (2 Kings 22:14, NIV)

The choice of Huldah as the authority to whom the chief priest goes is especially interesting in light of the fact that the prophets Jeremiah, Zephaniah, and Nahum all lived in the same area at the time. Yet Huldah was chosen.

 

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal 3: 26-28, NIV)

 

Good information. Thanks.

 

Now back to my original question that you sidestepped.

 

When God was setting up the original tribes, he chose the 12 males as head of the tribes and had 12 tribes of Israel, when he could have included Joseph's sisters and had more than 12 tribes.

 

Why do you think he did not?

 

I don't know, just throwing it out there as discussion.

 

I do agree with AL, they probably had very important roles as ALL Christians do.

 

And whether you are an elder or a deacon or not, is irrelevant as we all have very important roles.