The inflation is being artifically held in check by the Fed. They were supposed to drop rates again today. That has other bad consequences. Also, the unemployment rate only includes those that are on the unemployment rolls. The index doesn't include things like #of foreclosures, bankruptcies, the amount of credit being paid on. Today's economy isn't as simple as it was 30 years ago. As consumers, we have more tools to soften the hard times, that is until it all collapses like a stack of cards.

 

But you have to admit that foreclosures and bankruptcies are events that often have nothing to do with the general state of the economy. The high amount of current foreclosures and bankruptcies is currently happening, in part, not due to the economy but due to foolish actions of individuals. People foolishly bought homes that they had no business ever buying. We can blame the mortgage brokers, bankers and real estate agents for duping people into buying homes they shouldn't have bought, but the bottom line is that people optimistically and foolishly over bought. They could only afford the home at the initial interest rate and didn't put much thought into the possibility that when interest rate adjustment time came, interest rates would rise. Plus, a lot of people listened to those real estate infomercials (again foolishly) and bought a whole bunch of investment property with the belief (once again foolishly...that's becoming a theme of this post, isn't it?) that real estate values were going to increase 10-20% a year. They gambled and they lost, resulting in more bankruptcies and foreclosures. Sure the economy is hurting, but no where near as badly as the rampant amount of foreclosures and bankruptcies would indicate. My wife's grandmother had a saying: its not the amount of goods displayed on the shelf that matters, its the amount stored in the pantry. Way too many people have been focused on the items displayed on the shelf. As soon as things got a little tough, they had nothing to fall back on. And the most irritating thing is that economists have been warning us for years about the god awful amount of debt people have incurred and the effect it would have if the economy slowed even a little. Unfortunately, people didn't listened and continued to leverage themselves to the hilt buying homes they shouldn't have bought and couldn't afford.

Fine. You all go ahead and think that the economy is just rosy. 2-1 says if it was a Democrat in office, you'd swear that the Tribulation had begun. The real estate market is going to pieces, foreclosures (for whatever reason) are way up, the dollar is worth only 2/3 of what it was before 9/11, oil is up 500%, methane is up 75%, the major auto makers and airlines, over the past year the Dow is DOWN 316 points, jobless claims last week were even higher than expected, the Fed is out of control, there are 3 million people collecting unemployment, and inflation came in higher than expected even without including food and fuel costs.

 

But you all go ahead and believe that we're living the high life. I'll be digging my fallout shelter.

Here's a question: Was Carter at fault for the economic conditions that characterize his presidency? Or was he just in the wrong place when the economic you-know-what hit the fan?

Why talk about Carter, for some of us he was in office before we were even born... should not our attention be on the policies or the lack their of, by the Mccain, Clinton, Obama.

 

Dad I will help dig... !

Fine. You all go ahead and think that the economy is just rosy. 2-1 says if it was a Democrat in office, you'd swear that the Tribulation had begun. The real estate market is going to pieces, foreclosures (for whatever reason) are way up, the dollar is worth only 2/3 of what it was before 9/11, oil is up 500%, methane is up 75%, the major auto makers and airlines, over the past year the Dow is DOWN 316 points, jobless claims last week were even higher than expected, the Fed is out of control, there are 3 million people collecting unemployment, and inflation came in higher than expected even without including food and fuel costs.

 

But you all go ahead and believe that we're living the high life. I'll be digging my fallout shelter.

 

If you are including me in "you all", I think you need to reread my post as I never said that the economy was rosy. But it is not as bad as the rash of foreclosures and bankruptcies would indicate which is why its not relevant to the Misery Index. Only a fool would think that the economy is rosy and I don't recall anyone in this thread saying such so I have zero clue where you got that from. And to the extent the economy is doing bad, could you elaborate why you think this administration is responsible for that (which is the gravaman of this thread, is it not?). And please don't blame your disagreements with the Fed's actions on this administration. You know dang well full and good that the Fed is supposed to independent from Administration influence.

Here's a question: Was Carter at fault for the economic conditions that characterize his presidency? Or was he just in the wrong place when the economic you-know-what hit the fan?

 

Yes.

Yes.

 

In what ways?

FWIW, wikipedia has the highs, lows, and averages in terms of Misery Index per President. In terms of average, Bush is ranked 6th and Carter is 11th (out of the last 11 Presidents). However, it is only updated as of February 2008

Today's headlines:

 

Consumer spending up as prices soar

Initial jobless claims rise in latest week

Oil prices slide; gas prices extend record

Cigna posts lower profit on hefty losses

Economy grew by 0.6 percent in first quarter

With eye on inflation, Fed lowers rates again

Starbucks looks overseas for profit growth

GM lost $3.3 billion in the first quarter

Millionaires say economy squeezing them too

Buffett says recession may be worse than feared

On the plus side: Burger King boosts profit 21 percent

Here's a question: Was Carter at fault for the economic conditions that characterize his presidency? Or was he just in the wrong place when the economic you-know-what hit the fan?

Yes he was at fault. He inherited a bad economy and his policies and general lack of leadership made the situation much worse.

Fine. You all go ahead and think that the economy is just rosy. 2-1 says if it was a Democrat in office, you'd swear that the Tribulation had begun. The real estate market is going to pieces, foreclosures (for whatever reason) are way up, the dollar is worth only 2/3 of what it was before 9/11, oil is up 500%, methane is up 75%, the major auto makers and airlines, over the past year the Dow is DOWN 316 points, jobless claims last week were even higher than expected, the Fed is out of control, there are 3 million people collecting unemployment, and inflation came in higher than expected even without including food and fuel costs.

 

But you all go ahead and believe that we're living the high life. I'll be digging my fallout shelter.

I can also foresee potential circumstances that could send the economy over the cliff, but that does not make the Carter economy look any better. Had Reagan not come along and changed the direction of our economy with his tax cuts, we would already be at the bottom of the cliff trying to claw our way back to the top.

 

IMO, Reagan was one of only two presidents (the other being JFK) during my lifetime whose policies as president were not detrimental to the long term health of the economy. Reagan cut taxes and he streamlined regulations, both of which directly benefitted the economy.

Yes he was at fault. He inherited a bad economy and his policies and general lack of leadership made the situation much worse.

 

Specifics?

Specifics?

The economy was bad under Nixon. The economy was worse under Carter. The economy was better midway through Reagan's first term and much, much better by the time he left office.

 

Measures of bad, worse, and better are interest rates, unemployment rates, and inflation rates, all of which have been posted in detail in previous threads and may be easily found with Google.

 

Some other factors, such as the growing trade imbalance have spanned multiple administrations and I have never compared Carter to Reagan, Ford, and Nixon on that count. Surely Carter must have held his own on some economic statistic.

I can also foresee potential circumstances that could send the economy over the cliff, but that does not make the Carter economy look any better. Had Reagan not come along and changed the direction of our economy with his tax cuts, we would already be at the bottom of the cliff trying to claw our way back to the top.

 

IMO, Reagan was one of only two presidents (the other being JFK) during my lifetime whose policies as president were not detrimental to the long term health of the economy. Reagan cut taxes and he streamlined regulations, both of which directly benefitted the economy.

WHO CARES WHAT CARTER'S ECONOMY WAS LIKE! Its like saying the gun pointed at your head isn't as bad as the one that used to be pointed at your head.

 

I am in utter disbelief at the talk on both sides of the BGP aisle. I don't even know how to express myself at this point. The politics I read in the newspaper is mild to what I read in this forum. It's like talking to a bunch of lemmings, each group headed in the opposite direction. Are we really so blind that we only see what our political parties tell us to see? Keep it up. I'm almost convinced that I should drop my political affiliation and register as an independent.

WHO CARES WHAT CARTER'S ECONOMY WAS LIKE! Its like saying the gun pointed at your head isn't as bad as the one that used to be pointed at your head.

 

I am in utter disbelief at the talk on both sides of the BGP aisle. I don't even know how to express myself at this point. The politics I read in the newspaper is mild to what I read in this forum. It's like talking to a bunch of lemmings, each group headed in the opposite direction. Are we really so blind that we only see what our political parties tell us to see? Keep it up. I'm almost convinced that I should drop my political affiliation and register as an independent.

The thread subject is "Misery Index" and it is difficult to discuss the misery index without bringing Carter into the discussion. All I am doing is trying to stay on topic.

 

I agree with your assessment on the precarious position of our economy for the most part. When I hear predictions of $8/gallon gasoliine, I see mental pictures of riots, looting, and inner city residents pouring into the suburbs and beyond looking for food. Maybe the $8 price point is not the tipping point but there is a limit to what we can absorb and we seem to be approaching it quickly, whatever it is.