I've never heard that before. Well, I have, but I'm certain it's not the same argument you are making. But, manufacturing has indeed been an important part of the economy for decades which may lead to an incorrect causal analysis that manufacturing leads to a good economy when a good economy simply leads to more jobs. As the economy evolves and manufacturing jobs dissolve more jobs are created in other sectors. It is an unfortunate result of a market economy, but people must adapt. I also think the government should play an important role in helping them adapt.

 

I know you've said that your area has been particularly hard hit, but I think with the right governmental response, economic policy, and investment in education it should be short term, relatively. With the way the global economy functions now, I just don't see those manufacturing jobs coming back.

 

 

 

I don't expect those jobs back either.

 

One of the biggest problems we are having is convincing the populace of that. There are 3 generations of "mill worker mentality" inbred in the native population. It is hard to press upon a group the value of education and retraining when three generations said "you don't need an education, just get a job at the plant with me and live on $12, maybe $14 an hour."

 

Thanks for responding Habib. :thumb:

Could have a whole thread on it but just for starters:

 

Despite holding majorities in both the house and senate failed to lower taxes or government spending.

 

Stopped exports to Russia. Huge hit to the agriculture economy.

 

Inept handling of the Iranian hostage crises contributed to huge energy price increases from market instabilities

 

Combine these with already high unemployment and inflation that skyrocketed under his watch and you have your answer.

 

That's why I said yes to both parts of your question. He was the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

 

I can't dispute much of what you have written but I'd ask a 2nd look at some things listed.

 

For example the reason exports to Russia were stopped was because of the Afghan invasion. It might not have been the best step but it was a step to try and show our anger with the Soviet policy. As to agriculture it was nowhere near the hit that farms took under Reagan when subsidies began to be phased out.

 

Another to look at is the tax situation you cited. I don't recall well enough but Carter took over in '77, a mere 2 years after Vietnam ended and my guess is that we were still paying somewhat for that war. That might have been part of the reason for not lowering taxes much. (I'm sure the real reality was probably the social programs Carter wanted though but I wonder if the war debt had anything to do with some of it.)

 

As to his handling of the Iranian crisis it does look inept now. However if his April raid to get the hostages had worked it would have seemed to be brilliant. He would have frozen Iranian assets in the US and rescued the imprisoned. But it didn't work and he took the brunt of blame for it all.

I can't dispute much of what you have written but I'd ask a 2nd look at some things listed.

 

For example the reason exports to Russia were stopped was because of the Afghan invasion. It might not have been the best step but it was a step to try and show our anger with the Soviet policy. As to agriculture it was nowhere near the hit that farms took under Reagan when subsidies began to be phased out.

 

Another to look at is the tax situation you cited. I don't recall well enough but Carter took over in '77, a mere 2 years after Vietnam ended and my guess is that we were still paying somewhat for that war. That might have been part of the reason for not lowering taxes much. (I'm sure the real reality was probably the social programs Carter wanted though but I wonder if the war debt had anything to do with some of it.)

 

As to his handling of the Iranian crisis it does look inept now. However if his April raid to get the hostages had worked it would have seemed to be brilliant. He would have frozen Iranian assets in the US and rescued the imprisoned. But it didn't work and he took the brunt of blame for it all.

 

Don't disagree but let's face it your analysis could be extended to every decision ever made by any president. I believe they usually have good reasons for making the decisions they do. Obviously Carter thought he was making the best decisions at the time, similar to Bush today. The fact is they are not given the benefit of doubt if the decision doesn't end up with the results they had hoped for. Good intentions don't count.

But you have to admit that foreclosures and bankruptcies are events that often have nothing to do with the general state of the economy. The high amount of current foreclosures and bankruptcies is currently happening, in part, not due to the economy but due to foolish actions of individuals. People foolishly bought homes that they had no business ever buying. We can blame the mortgage brokers, bankers and real estate agents for duping people into buying homes they shouldn't have bought, but the bottom line is that people optimistically and foolishly over bought. They could only afford the home at the initial interest rate and didn't put much thought into the possibility that when interest rate adjustment time came, interest rates would rise. Plus, a lot of people listened to those real estate infomercials (again foolishly) and bought a whole bunch of investment property with the belief (once again foolishly...that's becoming a theme of this post, isn't it?) that real estate values were going to increase 10-20% a year. They gambled and they lost, resulting in more bankruptcies and foreclosures. Sure the economy is hurting, but no where near as badly as the rampant amount of foreclosures and bankruptcies would indicate. My wife's grandmother had a saying: its not the amount of goods displayed on the shelf that matters, its the amount stored in the pantry. Way too many people have been focused on the items displayed on the shelf. As soon as things got a little tough, they had nothing to fall back on. And the most irritating thing is that economists have been warning us for years about the god awful amount of debt people have incurred and the effect it would have if the economy slowed even a little. Unfortunately, people didn't listened and continued to leverage themselves to the hilt buying homes they shouldn't have bought and couldn't afford.

 

Thanks for saving me the typing.:thumb:

 

I will add, though, that real estate prices were artificially high due to a large supply of easy money. We are seeing a huge correction in prices because that supply of money has dried up. Certain sectors of the real estate market are hurting because of this but those same sectors were flourishng over the past few years because of it. It is evening out now.

Don't disagree but let's face it your analysis could be extended to every decision ever made by any president. I believe they usually have good reasons for making the decisions they do. Obviously Carter thought he was making the best decisions at the time, similar to Bush today. The fact is they are not given the benefit of doubt if the decision doesn't end up with the results they had hoped for. Good intentions don't count.

 

That almost sounds like Carter and Bush could be the "ying and yang" if things don't end up well in Iraq over the long haul. :lol:

 

I agree with everything you said. I don't see the need for vitriol that some do towards Carter but I surely won't defend him as a good president. :thumb:

I thought Carter was a great guy, but the wrong person for the job at that time.

 

The more I see him in world news, the less I respect him.

I thought Carter was a great guy, but the wrong person for the job at that time.

 

The more I see him in world news, the less I respect him.

:thumb:

 

Good man, horrible president.

:thumb:

 

Good man, horrible president.

:thumb: Horrible president.

 

I am not prepared to go as far as call Carter a good man. I think that Billy might have made a better president. At least Billy seemed to understand how our economy works and he connected with the common man through his beer.