I won't go into it very much, but there are people that I know and love that benefit greatly from a low capital gains tax, and it's frankly criminal... even if it is totally legal.

 

Let's look at some numbers, starting with that 200,000 couple from the debate. That would place the household earnings in the top 4% in the nation; real middle class, huh. The top 50 hedge fund managers last year earned more than 29 BILLION dollars, and at the current 15% rate payed the same percentage in taxes than people who earned over $8,026.

 

You can all me a class warrior if you want (I'm not, my communist friends call me a capitalist pig dog) but there has to be some sense of balance and fairness in the tax code.

 

If memory serves me correctly, a lot of hedge fund managers have advocated an increase in the capital gains tax on hedge fund managers. Why is Obama not advocating a raise in the capital gains tax on hedge fund managers specifically, rather than all across the board?

Obama said he's open to raising the capital gains tax rate- as in he wouldn't shut the door on taxes just because it's politically expedient, which is a PRUDENT thing to do (who'll get that subtle little joke, I wonder.) He hasn't exactly lain out a concrete tax plan. I would personally agree that a progressive capital gains taxing system, like the general tax brackets, would be a good idea.

I won't go into it very much, but there are people that I know and love that benefit greatly from a low capital gains tax, and it's frankly criminal... even if it is totally legal.

 

Let's look at some numbers, starting with that 200,000 couple from the debate. That would place the household earnings in the top 4% in the nation; real middle class, huh. The top 50 hedge fund managers last year earned more than 29 BILLION dollars, and at the current 15% rate paid the same percentage in taxes than people who earned over $8,026.

 

You can all me a class warrior if you want (I'm not, my communist friends call me a capitalist pig dog) but there has to be some sense of balance and fairness in the tax code.

So you prefer that there be a capital gains tax, so money goes to the government, which they redistribute to poorer people? So the government should take the money made by the company, and give it to people who did not work to make that money? Wait, which is criminal?

 

A high capital gains tax discourages entrepreneurship. This will discourage economic growth. I know that raising capital gains tax sounds good, but it is counter-productive. Either Senator Obama does not know about or care about macroeconomics (which I doubt), or he has no problem misleading the many Americans who don't. All of which are fine reasons for me not to vote for him.

So you prefer that there be a capital gains tax, so money goes to the government, which they redistribute to poorer people? So the government should take the money made by the company, and give it to people who did not work to make that money? Wait, which is criminal?

 

 

Socialism hasn't proven to be a very effective means of economic policy in the past.

Socialism hasn't proven to be a very effective means of economic policy in the past.

 

Can we just get off of this idea that Democrats are socialists? We have public roads, education, fire services, and police. Is that socialism? All taxes are wealth redistribution. Right now our wealth is being redistributed to re-build Iraq, to give substities to huge corporations that make huge profits and don't need them. If a poor person drives on a highway is that wealth re-distribution?

Socialism hasn't proven to be a very effective means of economic policy in the past.

 

Can we just get off of this idea that Democrats are socialists? We have public roads, education, fire services, and police. Is that socialism? All taxes are wealth redistribution. Right now our wealth is being redistributed to re-build Iraq, to give substities to huge corporations that make huge profits and don't need them. If a poor person drives on a highway is that wealth re-distribution?

Why aren't I surprised....someone makes unnecessary comment, and the thread totally shifts from the direction that it was intended (and that I intended from my post).

 

This board can be frustrating sometimes, as the posts with legitimate political discourse are ignored for the ones that evade the issues.

So you prefer that there be a capital gains tax, so money goes to the government, which they redistribute to poorer people? So the government should take the money made by the company, and give it to people who did not work to make that money? Wait, which is criminal?

 

A high capital gains tax discourages entrepreneurship. This will discourage economic growth. I know that raising capital gains tax sounds good, but it is counter-productive. Either Senator Obama does not know about or care about macroeconomics (which I doubt), or he has no problem misleading the many Americans who don't. All of which are fine reasons for me not to vote for him.

It's questionable how much it discourages entrepreneurship at 20% vs 15%.

I did not mean to shift the thread topic. I just felt that some of points brought up in this thread are linked closely to socialistic/collective principles (redistribution of wealth, higher taxes on those who produce versus those who do not etc...)

 

Just because Sen. Obama and many of his supporters don't realize that aspects of his taxation plans are moves towards collectivism, doesn't mean that it is not the case.

Can we just get off of this idea that Democrats are socialists?

Saying Democrats are socialists is really unfair and inaccurate. People should refrain from saying that.

 

But if you want to say all socialists are Democrats...

Socialism hasn't proven to be a very effective means of economic policy in the past.

 

 

Not sure there is any link but most describe the European nations as socialist and yet the Euro is sure doing a lot better than the dollar these days.

It's questionable how much it discourages entrepreneurship at 20% vs 15%.

We can agree that it certainly doesn't help entrepreneurship. Check this out as well:

 

The historical evidence suggest that capital gains tax reductions tend to increase tax revenue. When capital gains tax rates were lowered in 1978 and again in 1981, revenue climbed steadily. Conversely, when the tax rate was increased in 1987, revenue began declining despite forecasters predictions it would increase. For instance, capital gains tax revenue in 1985 equaled $36.4 billion after adjusting for inflation, yet $36.2 billion was collected in 1994 under a higher tax rate. In other words, tax revenue in 1994 was slightly less than it was in 1985 even though the economy was larger, the tax rate was higher, and the stock market was stronger in 1994.

Not sure there is any link but most describe the European nations as socialist and yet the Euro is sure doing a lot better than the dollar these days.

 

Far from it. More like responsible capitalism. They do have some social programs and control some industries but the vast majority of European countries are capitalist.

Not sure there is any link but most describe the European nations as socialist and yet the Euro is sure doing a lot better than the dollar these days.

 

 

I'll take the dollar in the long run anyday.

 

 

I am not trying to say that dems are socialist or whether or not European nations are socialist. I just think that taxing those who produce more than those who do not is a move in a socialistic direction. I could be wrong, and maybe this nation should raise taxes on those who produce and on those who take risks and become successful. After all, they should produce for the good of the country/society not their own selfish greed, right?

Far from it. More like responsible capitalism. They do have some social programs and control some industries but the vast majority of European countries are capitalist.

 

How is increasing capital gains tax be an example "responsible capitalism"?

How is increasing capital gains tax be an example "responsible capitalism"?

 

I was talking about Europe being capitalist. Obama said he may increase the capital gains tax. May. Not will. But I don't see how shifting some of the tax burden on the upper class is such a bad thing. Working class folks are the reason they are wealthy to begin with.