February 14, 200818 yr Again, to play acemona's advocate, if Jesus says 'do this, and you shall have eternal life' and Peter says 'wait, no, do this instead' shouldn't we go with Christ on the matter? Remember that Peter was full of the Holy Spirit and the man Jesus said he would build His church on. Also, my belief is that the entire Bible is the Word of God and the red letters is the words of Jesus. They carry equal weight.
February 14, 200818 yr Jesus says his church would be built on Peter, but in the end the most influential man in Christianity after Jesus is not 'the first Pope' but instead Paul. And it's not even close. Playing acemona's advocate is getting to be fun. :lol:
February 14, 200818 yr Jesus says his church would be built on Peter, but in the end the most influential man in Christianity after Jesus is not 'the first Pope' but instead Paul. And it's not even close. Playing acemona's advocate is getting to be fun. :lol: Forgive me if one of these are not written by Paul or about Paul. Having a brain laspe this morning. Ephesians 4:4-6 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Colossians 2:11-13 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society 11In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature,[a] not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you[c] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, Hebrews 6:1-3 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society Hebrews 6 1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so. Acts 19:3-5 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society 2and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." 3So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. 4Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5On hearing this, they were baptized into[a] the name of the Lord Jesus.
February 14, 200818 yr John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here..." How can Jesus make it any more clear? You can't know and love God the Father without knowing and loving God the Son, Jesus Christ.
February 14, 200818 yr John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here..." How can Jesus make it any more clear? You can't know and love God the Father without knowing and loving God the Son, Jesus Christ. Amen!
February 14, 200818 yr John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here..." How can Jesus make it any more clear? You can't know and love God the Father without knowing and loving God the Son, Jesus Christ. I think a key, key part you have to add is that they have HEARD the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you have heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ and not accepted Him as your Lord and Savior, I am afraid that you are endangering your salvation. If you have never heard of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I think Romans shows that there is a way to God without acknowledging Jesus as your Lord and Savior. But the qualifier is whether you have heard the message or not.
February 14, 200818 yr I think a key, key part you have to add is that they have HEARD the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you have heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ and not accepted Him as your Lord and Savior, I am afraid that you are endangering your salvation. If you have never heard of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I think Romans shows that there is a way to God without acknowledging Jesus as your Lord and Savior. But the qualifier is whether you have heard the message or not. I hear what you are saying but here is a question for thought. If ignorance is an excuse before God (not saying it is or isn't) then why do we waste our time in missionary effort? Wouldn't it make sense to "leave well enough alone" and let perhaps their ignorance save them rather than present the gospel and risk their rejection because they only heard it in that brief moment and it was not enough for them to overcome life, family, culture, etc. How does Paul's trip to Mars Hill in Acts 17 play in this? He told them that they had a statue to the "unknown god" and then proceeded to tell them that they were on the right track but that God had a name. Was he doing that because they needed to know or because he wanted them to know?
February 14, 200818 yr I hear what you are saying but here is a question for thought. If ignorance is an excuse before God (not saying it is or isn't) then why do we waste our time in missionary effort? Wouldn't it make sense to "leave well enough alone" and let perhaps their ignorance save them rather than present the gospel and risk their rejection because they only heard it in that brief moment and it was not enough for them to overcome life, family, culture, etc. How does Paul's trip to Mars Hill in Acts 17 play in this? He told them that they had a statue to the "unknown god" and then proceeded to tell them that they were on the right track but that God had a name. Was he doing that because they needed to know or because he wanted them to know? Two different points here. I am judged by MY ACTIONS. And God called me to be a disciple maker. Jesus told me to go out in the world and tell about his LOVE for us. I have to do that because that is what I am told to do. So, yes, I have to support missions both abroad and in my daily lives because that is what I am told to do. The different point is that their salvation is their responsibility and how they accept the message of Christ. On the last one, not sure but my guess would be that they didn't need to know till he told them about Christ. Now, they have heard the message and they will either acknowledge Christ or not. Paul was told to tell others and he NEEDED to tell them. Which is different than they needed to hear it.
February 14, 200818 yr Two different points here. I am judged by MY ACTIONS. And God called me to be a disciple maker. Jesus told me to go out in the world and tell about his LOVE for us. I have to do that because that is what I am told to do. So, yes, I have to support missions both abroad and in my daily lives because that is what I am told to do. The different point is that their salvation is their responsibility and how they accept the message of Christ. On the last one, not sure but my guess would be that they didn't need to know till he told them about Christ. Now, they have heard the message and they will either acknowledge Christ or not. Paul was told to tell others and he NEEDED to tell them. Which is different than they needed to hear it. I think you're splitting hairs here LBBC but that's okay. :thumb:
February 14, 200818 yr I think you're splitting hairs here LBBC but that's okay. :thumb: Gametime will tell you that it is not possible for me to split hairs.:lol:
February 14, 200818 yr God is God and can do as He sees fit, even if it doesn't make sense to us. Ignorance is no excuse. God manifests Himself even in creation. We are commanded to preach the gospel to every living creature. Missionaries would not be necessary (even detrimental) if ignorance were an excuse.
February 14, 200818 yr God is God and can do as He sees fit, even if it doesn't make sense to us. Ignorance is no excuse. God manifests Himself even in creation. We are commanded to preach the gospel to every living creature. Missionaries would not be necessary (even detrimental) if ignorance were an excuse. Yes God does but does Jesus his death on the cross? Key difference. To me, know way you can look at the stars and not think there is a God. But I can look at the stars and not know of the crucifixion story.
February 14, 200818 yr Yes God does but does Jesus his death on the cross? Key difference. To me, know way you can look at the stars and not think there is a God. But I can look at the stars and not know of the crucifixion story. True but man is still held responsible. It may not seem fair but His ways are not our ways . . . and He is God.
February 14, 200818 yr True but man is still held responsible. It may not seem fair but His ways are not our ways . . . and He is God. There is a Scripture in Romans that indicates they have no excuse for not knowing God. Which is different than never hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
February 14, 200818 yr In the scripture quoted, it says that those who choose to love GOD and their neighbor will have eternal life, it does not say anything about choosing to following Jesus. The gist of the OP is this - There are other ways to find GOD other than through Jesus. The Gospel story is not, and has not through history been available to everyone, therefore not all people have the ability to CHOOSE to accept or reject Jesus Christ. Those who do not have that choice, for whatever reason, are going to have to be drawn to God in some other way or else they are doomed to eternal life without God. This is a very interesting perspective.
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