Golf ruling question.

[The Professor]

This situation came up in a club tournament match play at our course. Our # 9 hole has a large sand bunker to the right of it, and a cart path running through the middle of it. It's actually a bunker that is also shared by the # 2 hole which sits off to the right. One of the guys in the match play hit a shot that ended up resting on the cart path. Since you don't have to hit from a cart path, where was he suppose to take relief. His opponent told him he would have to take a drop in the sand bunker, since the cartpath was surrounded by the bunker. He answered that he couldn't because you couldn't take a drop in a hazard, that he was permitted to take a line of entry and go back as far as he wanted to a grass area, as long as he was no closer to the hole. He said he was not in the sand, just on the cart path that ran through the bunker.

What should the ruling be? He ended up dropping it in the bunker, flubbing his shot, and losing the match (no it wasn't me:D.... I had already lost my match about 10 minutes earlier.)

[ladiesbballcoach]

This situation came up in a club tournament match play at our course. Our # 9 hole has a large sand bunker to the right of it, and a cart path running through the middle of it. It's actually a bunker that is also shared by the # 2 hole which sits off to the right. One of the guys in the match play hit a shot that ended up resting on the cart path. Since you don't have to hit from a cart path, where was he suppose to take relief. His opponent told him he would have to take a drop in the sand bunker, since the cartpath was surrounded by the bunker. He answered that he couldn't because you couldn't take a drop in a hazard, that he was permitted to take a line of entry and go back as far as he wanted to a grass area, as long as he was no closer to the hole. He said he was not in the sand, just on the cart path that ran through the bunker.

What should the ruling be? He ended up dropping it in the bunker, flubbing his shot, and losing the match (no it wasn't me:D.... I had already lost my match about 10 minutes earlier.)

 

He cannot take line of path as my understanding is there is only one point of relief from cart path. That said, my educated guess would be the nearest point of relief that is not in the bunker and not closest to the hole. Meaning about a club length back down the cart path where he is FIRST out of the sand bunker.

[jahearme]

He is to drop at the nearest point of relief from the cart path that is not in the bunker and not closer to the hole. You NEVER take relief from anything by dropping in a hazard.

[ladiesbballcoach]

He is to drop at the nearest point of relief from the cart path that is not in the bunker and not closer to the hole. You NEVER take relief from anything by dropping in a hazard.

 

Am I correct in that there is ONLY ONE point of relief?

 

Also, if that point of relief puts him in a position that his next shot is not a good one, he does have the option to hit off the cart path, correct?

[h.s.sportsrbest]

If there aren't lines painted on both sides of the path (specifying that the path is NOT part of the hazard), than shouldn't he technically be required to play it off the path? If the path is IN the hazard, he wouldn't get relief from it.

 

For the record, that is the dumbest design I've ever heard and the scorecard should have a local rule clarifying it. Ridiculous hazard placement, IMHO.

[jahearme]

If there aren't lines painted on both sides of the path (specifying that the path is NOT part of the hazard), than shouldn't he technically be required to play it off the path? If the path is IN the hazard, he wouldn't get relief from it.

 

For the record, that is the dumbest design I've ever heard and the scorecard should have a local rule clarifying it. Ridiculous hazard placement, IMHO.

 

I agree.

[jahearme]

Am I correct in that there is ONLY ONE point of relief?

 

Also, if that point of relief puts him in a position that his next shot is not a good one, he does have the option to hit off the cart path, correct?

 

 

Yes. There's only one "nearest" point of relief. If the relief is not benefiticial, the player may play from the parth (as ling as they have not lifted their ball to take relief.)

[h.s.sportsrbest]

Yes. There's only one "nearest" point of relief. If the relief is not benefiticial, the player may play from the parth (as ling as they have not lifted their ball to take relief.)

 

 

Again, unless it is marked differently than was explained here, the path is PART of the hazard and you would get no drop at all. How is it not that simple? Is there a marking I'm not aware of? If it bisects the hazard it is in the hazard.

 

Boone Links has stairs to the green on #13 that go through a bunker and if your ball is on the stairs you play from there. It is ridiculous, but it is the letter of the law. No relief from anything in a hazard. Right?

[jahearme]

Again, unless it is marked differently than was explained here, the path is PART of the hazard and you would get no drop at all. How is it not that simple? Is there a marking I'm not aware of? If it bisects the hazard it is in the hazard.

 

Boone Links has stairs to the green on #13 that go through a bunker and if your ball is on the stairs you play from there. It is ridiculous, but it is the letter of the law. No relief from anything in a hazard. Right?

 

You are correct. However, I've seen this before (at a RTJ course in Alabama I think) and they had the path marked. There was something about it on the rules sheet as well. But like you are saying, if it's not marked....sorry about your luck!

Here's what the rule says:Rule 24-2

b. Relief

Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction as follows:

(i) Through the Green: If the ball lies through the green, the player must lift the ball and drop it without penalty within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When the ball is dropped within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the immovable obstruction and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green. (ii) In a Bunker: If the ball is in a bunker, the player must lift the ball and drop it either: (a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker and the ball must be dropped in the bunker; or (b) Under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball may be dropped.

[ladiesbballcoach]

You are correct. However, I've seen this before (at a RTJ course in Alabama I think) and they had the path marked. There was something about it on the rules sheet as well. But like you are saying, if it's not marked....sorry about your luck!

Here's what the rule says:Rule 24-2

b. Relief

Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction as follows:

(i) Through the Green: If the ball lies through the green, the player must lift the ball and drop it without penalty within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When the ball is dropped within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the immovable obstruction and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green. (ii) In a Bunker: If the ball is in a bunker, the player must lift the ball and drop it either: (a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker and the ball must be dropped in the bunker; or (b) Under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball may be dropped.

So how does the bolded affect this situation?

[STRIKE3]

Is the cart path marked as a lateral hazard. If so, couldn't take relief off the path and no nearer the hole, like HSSB stated.

[Master of the Hardwood]

The hole that is in question uses the cart path to divide hole #2's bunker and hole #9's bunker! If it's being used as a division line would it still be considered in the bunker? It's really a nice hole and with the layout it was pretty much the only place for the cart path to go. They could of made the bunkers a little smaller, but would of taken away from the beauty of the hole. I do think it needs to be marked for further play for this situation, but I would think the drop behind the bunker no nearer to the hole would of been the best play in this match.

[h.s.sportsrbest]

The hole that is in question uses the cart path to divide hole #2's bunker and hole #9's bunker! If it's being used as a division line would it still be considered in the bunker? It's really a nice hole and with the layout it was pretty much the only place for the cart path to go. They could of made the bunkers a little smaller, but would of taken away from the beauty of the hole. I do think it needs to be marked for further play for this situation, but I would think the drop behind the bunker no nearer to the hole would of been the best play in this match.

 

Unless it is marked specifically as not part of the hazard, or the course has established a local rule printed on the back of the scorecard, I don't see how you could ever gain a drop outside of the bunker, under any circumstance.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Unless it is marked specifically as not part of the hazard, or the course has established a local rule printed on the back of the scorecard, I don't see how you could ever gain a drop outside of the bunker, under any circumstance.

 

If the cart path is a clear distinction between the two holes why the assumption that the bunker is one bunker. Master indicated that this is clearly two bunkers and not one bunker separated by a cart path.

 

Does not the lip of the bunker indicate the ending of the bunker?

 

Question for Professor and/or master: Is there any grass between the bunker and the cart path or does the asphalt go directly to the lip of the bunker?

[h.s.sportsrbest]

If the cart path is a clear distinction between the two holes why the assumption that the bunker is one bunker. Master indicated that this is clearly two bunkers and not one bunker separated by a cart path.

 

Does not the lip of the bunker indicate the ending of the bunker?

 

Question for Professor and/or master: Is there any grass between the bunker and the cart path or does the asphalt go directly to the lip of the bunker?

 

I've never seen the hole (obviously), I was just going by the description in Post #1. If there is no grass, and it appears that there isn't, I guess it depends on the look. Again, the course needs to make a permanent clarification and state it. I've given you my best opinion without seeing the hole. Again, however, dropping in the bunker should never be the right answer (meaning, I'd darn sure play it off of there before I'd drop it and nearly guarantee myself a tough lie [unless the sand is wet and hard]).