Mr. Sears in his email said it was unenforceable. What do you think?

 

http://www.khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/bylaw10.pdf

Bylaw 10. Recruitment

Sec. 1) Foreword

Pupils (both domestic and foreign) at any grade level shall

not be recruited to a member school of the KHSAA for the

purpose of participating in athletics, including recruitment

under the guise of academics.

Sec. 2) Definition

a) Recruiting is defined as an act, on behalf of or for

the benefit of, a school, which attempts to influence a

student to transfer to a member school for the purpose

of participating in athletics. Such also includes influencing

a student to remain at a school. A school official utilizing

an intermediary, such as, but not limited to a peer,

another school employee, a student, a parent or a

citizen, for the purpose of recruiting a student athlete

shall be in noncompliance.

b) An athletic coach or any other member of the school

staff shall not influence a student even if the student,

his/her parents or any intermediary from another school

makes the initial contact. In this situation, a coach or

staff member (paid or unpaid) should immediately refer

the person(s) to the school principal.

c) Influencing a student shall include, but shall not be

limited to the promise or instilling the expectation of

an athletic advantage, playing time, employment of the

student or his/her parents or relatives, housing for the

student or his/her parents, scholarships or financial

aid for which other members of the student body are

not generally eligible, or any other material or athletic

reward for which other members of the student body

are not generally eligible.

Sec. 3) Penalty

Any representative of a member school knowingly allowing

the recruitment of a student for the purpose of participating

in athletics or who should have known of such recruitment

shall be guilty of willful neglect of duty, misconduct, and/or

breach of contract. Such shall apply not only to coaches,

but also to personnel supervising coaches, such as, but

not limited to an athletic director, an assistant principal,

a principal, an assistant superintendent, a superintendent

or a school board member. This regulation shall also apply

to students or their parents.

(Case situations related to this

Actually, I think my position has long been that it is unforceable.

 

Technically, if my child and one of your children is on an AAU team together and my child asks your child to come and play for their school team that is recruiting and illegal.

 

If you are sitting in the stands as a parent and mention to my wife about your child coming to my school, that is illegal and recruiting.

 

Notice the word "citizen" in #2. Doesn't that pretty much mean anybody but the illegal aliens that Congress and the President is worried about?

 

So, that means NO ONE can talk to a student about attending another school or STAYING in the school they are presently in.

 

So as a coach, my #1 player comes to me and says they are thinking of transferring. Technically, I am NOT allowed to talk to them about "remaining at my school" and on my team.

It would take too many investigators/employees working for an already financially strapped KHSAA to police this.

Someone complains, ask them to sign the complaint form. Once the complaint form is signed, send an investigator to gather evidence, like the police. If people will not talk or turn over documents, send a subpoena for them to appear. If they still refuse, get a court order for contempt.

 

Its not unenforceable. The NCAA uses investigative process for vague booster activity all the time. Mr. Sears says its unenforceable because noone will sign a complaint to initiate, because they are afraid of what is under the rocks in their own backyard.

Someone complains, ask them to sign the complaint form. Once the complaint form is signed, send an investigator to gather evidence, like the police. If people will not talk or turn over documents, send a subpoena for them to appear. If they still refuse, get a court order for contempt.

 

Its not unenforceable. The NCAA uses investigative process for vague booster activity all the time. Mr. Sears says its unenforceable because noone will sign a complaint to initiate, because they are afraid of what is under the rocks in their own backyard.

Does the KHSAA have subpoena power?

How much would it cost to run such a program? LY or the previous, there was a story of the KHSAA spending a mil, I think, on legal services for the first time. How much would this increase with subpoenas, court orders and the like?

 

Not arguing trying to understand the debate and get all the information in and I trust your opinion of it highly.

 

Plus, do you read this to mean, as I said, NO ONE can talk to a student about attending any school? Players could be charged with recruiting their AAU teammates.

Does the KHSAA have subpoena power?

How much would it cost to run such a program? LY or the previous, there was a story of the KHSAA spending a mil, I think, on legal services for the first time. How much would this increase with subpoenas, court orders and the like?

 

Not arguing trying to understand the debate and get all the information in and I trust your opinion of it highly.

 

Plus, do you read this to mean, as I said, NO ONE can talk to a student about attending any school? Players could be charged with recruiting their AAU teammates.

 

If they would stop spending money on ridiculous Rule 6 litigation, legal fees would be reduced. Yes, they have subpoena power. Yes, the cost would go up. But the issue itself is leaving a black mark on the state that needs to be resolved.

I have said this many times, I understand how the so-called recruiting hurts some schools athletically but guess what, we live in the United States, home of the brave, land of the free. Why as parents shouldn't we have the right to send our children where we see fit. If schools get loaded w/the best athletes, so be it. If the kids are happy even better.

 

H.S. sports is for the good of the children, not all of us parents. We had our shot now let them have theirs. If they don't win a trophy and a championship well, that's part of life and growing up to learn about winning and losing.

I have said this many times, I understand how the so-called recruiting hurts some schools athletically but guess what, we live in the United States, home of the brave, land of the free. Why as parents shouldn't we have the right to send our children where we see fit. If schools get loaded w/the best athletes, so be it. If the kids are happy even better.

 

H.S. sports is for the good of the children, not all of us parents. We had our shot now let them have theirs. If they don't win a trophy and a championship well, that's part of life and growing up to learn about winning and losing.

Absolutely, you have that right, but the present bylaws state that if ANYONE talks to you or your child about attending that school, then that is recruiting and the school could face penalties. Do you think that happens on an almost daily basis in this state? We are not talking about what it should say but what it does say. It says ANY CITIZEN.

Absolutely, you have that right, but the present bylaws state that if ANYONE talks to you or your child about attending that school, then that is recruiting and the school could face penalties. Do you think that happens on an almost daily basis in this state? We are not talking about what it should say but what it does say. It says ANY CITIZEN.

 

Then nearly EVERY school is guilty. Change the rule so those that are guilty of recruiting (by offering incentives not available to all students) are punished. Pretty simple.

Then nearly EVERY school is guilty. Change the rule so those that are guilty of recruiting (by offering incentives not available to all students) are punished. Pretty simple.

I believe that is Wilson Sears point that this bylaw as is, is unenforceable.

 

That preventing recruiting is unenforceable. Without it being a major cost.

 

How do you prevent two athletes about talking their school up?

How do you prevent a parent-to-parent conversation about the benefits of playing for Coach Rupp at their school?

 

You can't. Yet, that is the very BASIS of recruiting that is happening.

 

You WILL NOT nor SHOULD NOT prevent players and parents from talking up recruiting. Yet, that is the illegal recruiting.

Actually, I think my position has long been that it is unforceable.

 

Technically, if my child and one of your children is on an AAU team together and my child asks your child to come and play for their school team that is recruiting and illegal.

 

If you are sitting in the stands as a parent and mention to my wife about your child coming to my school, that is illegal and recruiting.

 

Notice the word "citizen" in #2. Doesn't that pretty much mean anybody but the illegal aliens that Congress and the President is worried about?

 

So, that means NO ONE can talk to a student about attending another school or STAYING in the school they are presently in.

 

So as a coach, my #1 player comes to me and says they are thinking of transferring. Technically, I am NOT allowed to talk to them about "remaining at my school" and on my team.

 

While that is currently the case, its my understanding that there is an amendment to this by law pending that would permit schools/coaches to talk to students in their school; in other words to recruit their students into not transferring.

 

The only part of 10 that is unenforceable from a practical standpoint is its possible coverage of parents and non-school folks. Its absolutely stupid to want to prevent parents from talking to one another about high schools and it is impossible to monitor and enforce such behavior. 10 should be amended to eliminate that coverage unless the parent was asked to make contact with another kid's parents by a school official, employee or coach. AAU kids and their parents may talk about all going to the same high school to build a powerhouse team. If a parent makes the high school decision based on that basis, while I think its totally stupid, its still a parent's right to make that call.

 

The rest of 10 is enforceable. Unless a coach is absolutely certain he/she will be successful 100% in his recruiting efforts (and no coach can be certain of that) such coach has to really worry about being turned into the KHSAA by the kid or the kids parents if the coach is unsuccessful in his/her efforts. And I would make the penalty for a coach found by the KHSAA to have recruited or have had others recruit on his behalf be a life time ban from coaching in Ky for the first offense. No second chance. That might think them think twice about doing it. My guess is that the various coaches associations, for all their carping about all the illegal recruiting going on and the adverse effect it has on a level playing field, would oppose that sanction however.

I believe that is Wilson Sears point that this bylaw as is, is unenforceable.

 

That preventing recruiting is unenforceable. Without it being a major cost.

 

How do you prevent two athletes about talking their school up?

How do you prevent a parent-to-parent conversation about the benefits of playing for Coach Rupp at their school?

 

You can't. Yet, that is the very BASIS of recruiting that is happening.

 

You WILL NOT nor SHOULD NOT prevent players and parents from talking up recruiting. Yet, that is the illegal recruiting.

Then change that part of by-law 10 and rigidly enfore the provisions that deal with school employees or agents offering enticements to get kids to come to their school. I would sincerely hope that as a coach I did a good enough job that parents encouraged other to place their kids in my care.

I believe that is Wilson Sears point that this bylaw as is, is unenforceable.

He is using that as a smoke screen. Clearify the rule so that recruiting with the offer of an advantage is illegal. Simple.

You can't. Yet, that is the very BASIS of recruiting that is happening.

 

You WILL NOT nor SHOULD NOT prevent players and parents from talking up recruiting. Yet, that is the illegal recruiting.

 

I'm surprise a 1st Amendment court case has not been brought forward.

 

Just change the rule so that it is illegal to recruit by means of offering XYZ. People should be able to talk about how well they like their school. However, they should not be able to make promises, etc.

While that is currently the case, its my understanding that there is an amendment to this by law pending that would permit schools/coaches to talk to students in their school; in other words to recruit their students into not transferring.

 

The only part of 10 that is unenforceable from a practical standpoint is its possible coverage of parents and non-school folks. Its absolutely stupid to want to prevent parents from talking to one another about high schools and it is impossible to monitor and enforce such behavior. 10 should be amended to eliminate that coverage unless the parent was asked to make contact with another kid's parents by a school official, employee or coach. AAU kids and their parents may talk about all going to the same high school to build a powerhouse team. If a parent makes the high school decision based on that basis, while I think its totally stupid, its still a parent's right to make that call.

 

The rest of 10 is enforceable. Unless a coach is absolutely certain he/she will be successful 100% in his recruiting efforts (and no coach can be certain of that) such coach has to really worry about being turned into the KHSAA by the kid or the kids parents if the coach is unsuccessful in his/her efforts. And I would make the penalty for a coach found by the KHSAA to have recruited or have had others recruit on his behalf be a life time ban from coaching in Ky for the first offense. No second chance. That might think them think twice about doing it. My guess is that the various coaches associations, for all their carping about all the illegal recruiting going on and the adverse effect it has on a level playing field, would oppose that sanction however.

I truly, truly feel that the recruiting that is rampant in this country is not from coaches or staff. It is from parents and AAU coaches.

He is using that as a smoke screen. Clearify the rule so that recruiting with the offer of an advantage is illegal. Simple.

 

 

I'm surprise a 1st Amendment court case has not been brought forward.

 

Just change the rule so that it is illegal to recruit by means of offering XYZ. People should be able to talk about how well they like their school. However, they should not be able to make promises, etc.

So my daughter tells your daughter that we will win a state/district/regional title if she comes to our school. Or she says, "yeah, you will be starting." Is that a promise?

 

Or she says, our coach has a contact with colleges and he can get you noticed. Is that a promise?