Dr. Albert Mohler Responds to the Pope's message

[rockmom]

...

Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, says he's not upset by what the pope says. He says it's a chance to get beyond vague ecumenical sentiments and spell out serious theological differences -- and to return the favor: "The Roman Catholic Church is willing to go so far as to assert that any church that denies the papacy is no true church. Evangelicals should be equally candid in asserting that any church defined by the claims of the papacy is no true church. This is not a theological game for children, it is the honest recognition of the importance of the question."

[GoBigRed]

I haven't ever liked the term "evangelicals", I don't see why he doesn't just say "christians" when he refers to his kind.

[Bronco99]

This was great reading rockmom and I think a proper view of the situation as a whole. Everyone views this topic from his or her side of the argument which is natural. however, we should be respectful to one another as we discuss this topic in a theological (not emotional) way. Again, thanks rockmom.

 

However, I still believe that their is only one church which Christ built on "Peter" the cornerstone or the "rock" that Christ built the one and only church on. The many different religions in the world are just that, religions. Man made these religions, not God and man made the sacraments and doctrines that govern these religions, not God. I belong to the only true church and that is because I have salvation through Jesus Christ.

 

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him sall not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[GoBigRed]

However, I still believe that their is only one church which Christ built on "Peter" the cornerstone or the "rock" that Christ built the one and only church on. The many different religions in the world are just that, religions. Man made these religions, not God and man made the sacraments and doctrines that govern these religions, not God. I belong to the only true church and that is because I have salvation through Jesus Christ.

 

I fully agree with you, there is only one church preached about in the bible, we all believe that our particular church we attend is that one I suppose.

 

I have one question, where in the bible is the term "sacrament" mentioned? This isn't directed at you, I am just wondering how that term ever came about.

[Bronco99]

I fully agree with you, there is only one church preached about in the bible, we all believe that our particular church we attend is that one I suppose.

 

I have one question, where in the bible is the term "sacrament" mentioned? This isn't directed at you, I am just wondering how that term ever came about.

 

To be honest, I am not sure the word sacrament can be found in the Bible(probably not). This is another one of those things instiuted by man not God. I will also add that in my last post when I used the word sacrament I used in incorrectly by definition. By definition sacraments are the rites given by Christ to sanctify grace (American Heritage Dictionary definition given at the bottom). I used this as man's sacraments: meaning things that man has issued as rites to sanctify grace and man has no authority to issue rites or give any terms for man to sactify grace. Gods word, the Bible is what every christian shouuld be following.

 

American Heritage Dictionary - (sāk'rə-mənt) n.

 

1) Christianity A rite believed to be a means of or visible form of grace,

especially:

a) In the Eastern, Roman Catholic, and some other Western Christian

churches, any of the traditional seven rites that were instituted by

Jesus and recorded in the New Testament and that confer

sanctifying grace.

 

b) In most other Western Christian churches, the two rites, Baptism and

the Eucharist, that were instituted by Jesus to confer sanctifying

grace.

 

c) The Eucharist.

 

d) The consecrated elements of the Eucharist, especially the bread or

host.

2) A religious rite similar to a Christian sacrament, as in character or meaning.

 

3) Often Sacrament

 

a) The Eucharist.

 

b) The consecrated elements of the Eucharist, especially the bread or

host.

[GoBigRed]

So basically a sacrament is really just the commandments that Christ laid out?

[Bronco99]

So basically a sacrament is really just the commandments that Christ laid out?

 

Basically!

[Alabama Larry]

Thanks RockMom, I don't know to bring things over to let others read things.

[HHSDad]

In other words, "I know you are, but what am I?"

[PepRock01]

In other words, "I know you are, but what am I?"

 

Yeah that was my thought too. :lol:

[rockmom]

This article was in the Record, the Archdiocese of Louisville's Catholic news paper on Thursday:

 

Protestant groups dismayed at Vatican document on the identity of ‘church’

 

“The document does not say that the Protestant churches are not churches, but that they are not churches in the precise sense, that is, they are not churches in the way that the Catholic Church uses the term ‘church,’ ” he said.

 

At the same time, Cardinal Kasper said, all Christians must recognize that “at the basis of dialogue there is not just that which divides us, but that which unites us, and that is greater than what divides us. For that reason, one should not skim over what the declaration affirms in a positive way about the Protestant churches, and that is that Jesus Christ is effectively present in them for the salvation of their members.”

[Watusi]

However, I still believe that their is only one church which Christ built on "Peter" the cornerstone or the "rock" that Christ built the one and only church on.

 

A question. I have read and heard many people comment that Jesus said he would build his church on Peter. I know Petros litterally translated means rock, and that adds to that understanding.

 

When I read that passage, and think about the meaning of that moment in time as it pertains to the Christian faith, I think he meant something different.

 

Consider the passage...

 

¹³When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? ¹⁴And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. ¹⁵He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? ¹⁶And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. ¹⁷And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. ¹⁸And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. - KJV Matt 16: 13-16

 

I think it was Peter's confession "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" that was the rock that Jesus was saying he would build his church on, not Peter himself. That fact, that confession, would be the foundation, the cornerstone of the Kingdom that Jesus would build.

 

Anyone else have that belief about this historic scripture?

[rockmom]

A question. I have read and heard many people comment that Jesus said he would build his church on Peter. I know Petros litterally translated means rock, and that adds to that understanding.

 

When I read that passage, and think about the meaning of that moment in time as it pertains to the Christian faith, I think he meant something different.

 

Consider the passage...

 

¹³When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? ¹⁴And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. ¹⁵He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? ¹⁶And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. ¹⁷And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. ¹⁸And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. - KJV Matt 16: 13-16

 

I think it was Peter's confession "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" that was the rock that Jesus was saying he would build his church on, not Peter himself. That fact, that confession, would be the foundation, the cornerstone of the Kingdom that Jesus would build.

 

Anyone else have that belief about this historic scripture?

 

Great thoughts, Tootsie.

 

But, there are other supporting passages in the Bible to which Jesus specifically singles Peter out as the one chosen by Him upon which to build His church. The rest of the passage in Matthew clears up the question you raise, IMO:

 

 

"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven’" (Matt. 16:18-19).

 

"‘Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren’" (Luke 22:31-32).

 

"He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, ‘So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas’ (which means Peter)" (John 1:42).

 

"When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?’ He said to him, ‘Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.’ He said to him, ‘Feed my lambs.’ A second time he said to him, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me?’ He said to him, ‘Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.’ He said to him, ‘Tend my sheep.’ He said to him the third time, ‘Simon, son of John, do you love me?’ Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, ‘Do you love me?’ And he said to him, ‘Lord, you know that I love you.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Feed my sheep’" (John 21:15-17).

[GoBigRed]

A question. I have read and heard many people comment that Jesus said he would build his church on Peter. I know Petros litterally translated means rock, and that adds to that understanding.

 

When I read that passage, and think about the meaning of that moment in time as it pertains to the Christian faith, I think he meant something different.

 

Consider the passage...

 

¹³When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? ¹⁴And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. ¹⁵He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? ¹⁶And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. ¹⁷And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. ¹⁸And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. - KJV Matt 16: 13-16

 

I think it was Peter's confession "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" that was the rock that Jesus was saying he would build his church on, not Peter himself. That fact, that confession, would be the foundation, the cornerstone of the Kingdom that Jesus would build.

 

Anyone else have that belief about this historic scripture?

 

I believe this as well, for in Romans 3:23 we know "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". I feel confident it is speaking of all men here, cause we know that Christ was perfect.

[Hasbeen]

I fully agree with Mohler's statement. I was not offended by the Pope's comments. If the Pope seriously believes in the Catholic faith, he should have the opinion he stated. Same goes for Mohler. And me.