That sounds like a very good topic for a new thread. I want to try and keep this one on topic if we can.

 

AL's question was "how would you feel about a son or daughter dating someone of another faith?". Actually, that would seem to be much more related to the original subject than the differences in faith discussion that this has evolved into.

Just out of curiosity, how many Catholics here (on BGP, and specifically that have been involved in this thread) agree with the pope when he basically says that Protestant Churches do not have the means to salvation?

 

And, vice versa, how many Protestants believe the same about Catholics?

 

For the record, I don't agree with either view. I believe both sides have the "means to salvation". I believe a person only has to repent and accept Christ as their Lord and savior...whether they choose to become Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Amish, etc., says more about their personal preferences of worship and fellowship, I would say.

 

I'm just especially curious about whether the people who've posted on here agree or disagree with the pope's statement.

Just out of curiosity, how many Catholics here (on BGP, and specifically that have been involved in this thread) agree with the pope when he basically says that Protestant Churches do not have the means to salvation?

 

And, vice versa, how many Protestants believe the same about Catholics?

 

For the record, I don't agree with either view. I believe both sides have the "means to salvation". I believe a person only has to repent and accept Christ as their Lord and savior...whether they choose to become Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Amish, etc., says more about their personal preferences of worship and fellowship, I would say.

 

I'm just especially curious about whether the people who've posted on here agree or disagree with the pope's statement.

I believe this is close to being my view although I would add that full immersion baptism has to be a part of that "means to salvation."

 

I do think in the means of worshipping and fellowship there are stark differences between the different Christian denominations.

 

While I appreciate your willingness to admit your limitations, (a rare commodity in most Religion threads) I don’t share your desire to prove someone wrong. I am not concerned with proving someone wrong. I can come up with wrong choices all day long… :lol:

 

What is important is that we identify the things we know are right, agree on them, and then move into areas that we may not quite see eye-to-eye, but can perhaps establish further common ground.

 

My choice of words in "proving you wrong" was a poor selection, I apologize.

 

I think that we will never agree, and that it all boils down to the whole Sola Scriptura thing. I wish that we could see eye-to-eye, because, to be honest, it makes me sad when I think of how wrong you and many Protestants are. (which is my opinion). Maybe that is arrogance, maybe it is a confidence in my beliefs. Now don't get me wrong, just as the Pope said, there are many elements of truth in the denominations, and I believe the same things as you in many cases. But the world upsets me, and sometimes I become combatitive.

Just out of curiosity, how many Catholics here (on BGP, and specifically that have been involved in this thread) agree with the pope when he basically says that Protestant Churches do not have the means to salvation?

 

When I first heard it, I disagreed. But upon further review, not having the means of salvation does not mean that heaven in unattainable. I agree with the Pope, what he said was that without the Catholic Church, and as CF999 put it, the re-presentation of Jesus' sacrifice in the Holy Communion, no one could reach Heaven.

Another good post. :thumb:

 

Are you Catholic? If you believe that, then it seems that would create a serious conflict as far as being a member of the Catholic Church. Unless I'm misunderstanding their doctrine, that is and has always been the Catholic stance.

 

It seems to me to defy logical thought for Protestants to make the claim that Catholics can't be saved...if that were the case, there would have be no one saved to start the Protestant movement in the first place. Just a thought.

 

Either way, I don't think either side has all the answers, but for one or the other to make statements that the other side doesn't have the means of salvation is absurd, IMO. As Larry said, Jesus is available to all...and that goes beyond the confines of Protestant and Catholic. I think we need to tell people the road to salvation...Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life."...there is no other way...we need to tell people that and let God lead them in how they serve Him, whether it be in a Catholic or Protestant Church, or some other way. It's not for men to decide.

 

I am Catholic but I was taught to question my faith and that is what I have done...I believe in God and the Holy Trinity...I believe I am living in a way that God doesn't frown upon.

5wide, I am with you. I disagree with the Pope's contention. I disagree with cch5432, and believe, as he says, that he is being both arrogant and confident in his beliefs. I also disagree with LBBC, nowhere does it say that immersion baptism, or even baptism period, is a prerequisite to salvation. Repentance and acceptance of Christ's free gift is all one needs, its that simple. Sometimes folks have difficulty with the simplicity of the gift.

To address some of the questions regarding why Catholics pray to saints, and the reverence of Mary by Catholics:

 

After much reading, and some discussion with a priest:

 

 

Some very basic questions need to be asked:

 

Do you believe that the prayers of the living on your behalf can impact the outcome of an intercession?

Do you ask for prayers from your friends, family or faith community when there are times of crisis, etc?

If the prayers of the living can intercede to God on our behalf, why not those that have gone before us and we believe to be in Heaven with God already?

Would not their prayers of intercession also be considered as valuable, if not more, of those of theliving?

 

 

Saints are not "worshiped", they are HONORED. The same with Mary, but she is revered even futher for her selection by God to be the Mother of His Son.

 

To me, it's a very simple, logical conclusion drawn from the belief in Salvation and the belief that we have souls, and there is a Heaven. If we have souls, it stands to reason that the soul's ability to intercede is actually enhanced by the fact that it has ascended into Heaven and is in the presence of God already.

 

First of all I would like to say that I enjoy reading your posts rockmom. I say this because the different views on certain beliefs gives me a reason to study Gods word and therefore I have been reading the Bible more as of late. I would also like to add that I am always interested in learning the beliefs of different religions and comend the faith you have in yours. Also, I am a christian and was saved when I was 12 years old. I grew up going to a church of christ and as I have gotten older I have attendend the church services of many different religions including Catholic, Methadist and Babtist churches. With all I have learned in my 41 year old life(which is not too much) I am sure about one thing, if you are a christian and I am a christian then we are a part of the same family and I am truely blessed to be your brother in Christ.

 

Now, please someone help me out with this please. I have always been taught to believe that the saved will arise and go to heaven at the same time when Jesus returns to earth. I am not sure where it says this or even if it does but I seem to remember that the Bible says that when Jesus returns all christians (alive and dead) will rise up to meet him in the air. Please, anyone who can point me in the right direction to find scripture on this point would be greatly appreciated, as I have been unable to locate any on my own.

 

My mother was one of the Godliest women I have ever known. She passed away almost 4 yrs ago and I believe with all my heart that she is in a place where she can see my life and here my prayers and probably can still intercede on my behalf. However, I have grown up with the belief that the Bible tells us that there is a place where christians go when they die and that is their waiting place until Jesus returns to take us all to heaven. Again, please help me find scripture that does or does not support these beliefs.

 

I want to clarify one more thing, when I say that I grew up believing something about what the Bible tells us doesn't mean I think those beliefs are 100% accurate. I have found that sometimes our bel;iefs are based on our religious background and not God's word. I like to support everything I believe with God's word. If it is not in the Bible then I can't believe it because that little part in Revelations that says don't add-to or take-away from God's word.

 

Again, please point me to some scripture that covers this topic and I will read and study and ask questions and all those things that help me be a stronger christian. Thanks.

When I first heard it, I disagreed. But upon further review, not having the means of salvation does not mean that heaven in unattainable. I agree with the Pope, what he said was that without the Catholic Church, and as CF999 put it, the re-presentation of Jesus' sacrifice in the Holy Communion, no one could reach Heaven.

 

 

I have to diagree with you here and the only thing I will say to defend why I disagree is this: read John 3:16.

5wide, I am with you. I disagree with the Pope's contention. I disagree with cch5432, and believe, as he says, that he is being both arrogant and confident in his beliefs. I also disagree with LBBC, nowhere does it say that immersion baptism, or even baptism period, is a prerequisite to salvation. Repentance and acceptance of Christ's free gift is all one needs, its that simple. Sometimes folks have difficulty with the simplicity of the gift.

 

I agree with you Hearsay. Babtisim is a sacrament that God has asked us to follow to show in a symbolic way that we have been saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and it is the representation of the death of our sinful life and the rebirth as christians. It is only symbolic just as communion is a sacrament and is symbolic and sacraments have nothing to do with salvation.

Then tell me what Acts 2:38 says.

 

I believe the key word in Acts 2:38 is repent. Again in Acts 3:19 he says repent. Repenting is the accepting of Jesus as your savior and believing in Jesus is the way to salvation. Read John 3:16. Again as saidin an earlier post babtism is a sacrament that God asks of us to symbolize our death as a sinner and our resurrection as a christian and our salvation is not contingent on being babtized.

5wide, I am with you. I disagree with the Pope's contention. I disagree with cch5432, and believe, as he says, that he is being both arrogant and confident in his beliefs. I also disagree with LBBC, nowhere does it say that immersion baptism, or even baptism period, is a prerequisite to salvation. Repentance and acceptance of Christ's free gift is all one needs, its that simple. Sometimes folks have difficulty with the simplicity of the gift.

If you choose to give your life to Jesus Christ but don't choose to be baptized, has your heart really given the decision making in your life over to Christ?

 

I believe the key word in Acts 2:38 is repent. Again in Acts 3:19 he says repent. Repenting is the accepting of Jesus as your savior and believing in Jesus is the way to salvation. Read John 3:16. Again as saidin an earlier post babtism is a sacrament that God asks of us to symbolize our death as a sinner and our resurrection as a christian and our salvation is not contingent on being babtized.

Have you truly accepted Jesus as your LORD and Savior if you don't obey his statement of being baptized?

I have a question. What about the Jews?

If you choose to give your life to Jesus Christ but don't choose to be baptized, has your heart really given the decision making in your life over to Christ?

 

 

Have you truly accepted Jesus as your LORD and Savior if you don't obey his statement of being baptized?

 

We've been through this before. I fear you tread on dangerous ground. You connect disobedience with lack of salvation. Jesus also commanded us to go forth into the world and spread his word. To the extent we fail at that on a daily basis, are we doomed though we have repented?

 

No, the act of baptism is symbolic. Does one need a ring to make a marriage valid? By adding this as a prerequisite, you add an addtional step that takes away from all that is required repentance and acceptance.

I have a question. What about the Jews?

 

Good topic, but for a new thread. The honor shall be yours.