The next time you need help from a politician, tell them what your feelings are about them and remind them of that little information you have at BGP. I'm sure you'll get lots of help.

 

I know a few politicians. Almost all them are hard working people who are doing what they think their constituents want them to do. The contempt for politicians displayed in this forum is way out of touch with reality.

Oh puhleeze!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

Rubbing elbows with a few low-level politicos does not make all politicians wonderful people. :lol:

Oh puhleeze!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

Rubbing elbows with a few low-level politicos does not make all politicians wonderful people. :lol:

 

 

The bolded sentence makes absolutely no sense. Furthermore, I don't recall saying all politicians are wonderful people. We have to work on your reading skills.:laugh:

 

You get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning or something? Its not even football season and you're wanting to spar.

The bolded sentence makes absolutely no sense. Furthermore, I don't recall saying all politicians are wonderful people. We have to work on your reading skills.:laugh:

 

You get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning or something? Its not even football season and you're wanting to spar.

I'm not sparring at all. I just don't see the need to belittle people's points instead of just discussing them in a more adult manner. But this has gotten way off topic, so I'm leaving this for the rest of you to hash out.

BF & LN, am I going to have to seperate you two? :lol:

I'm not sparring at all. I just don't see the bneed to belittle people's points instead of just discussing them in a more adult manner. But this has gotten way off topic, so I'm leaving this for the rest of you to hash out.

You don't see the bneed to belittle? :lol: :lol:

LN, over the years I think it is safe to say that we generally share a similar point-of-view, and I always respect your opinion, but I’m not sure we’re even in the same zip code on this one… :lol:

Keep in mind that in one of my original posts I stated that illegals should not be eligible for the social programs. They shouldn't.

I agree... under the Amnesty Bill however, they wouldn't remain illegal for long. All of a sudden we have an additional 12 to 20 million new citizens, most of whom toiling at or near the poverty level... and you already answered this puzzle when you stated the following:

As to the paying of taxes, with the very low hourly rate they get, most of them probably wouldn't pay much if any income tax anyway, would they?

I agree with you.

 

Which brings us to this quandry:

As for their off spring, if they become legalized citizens and pay taxes, then they should be eligible for the social benefits.

We do not require any American citizen to "pay taxes" before they are eligible to tap into our bloated social services system today. What makes you think that it would, could our should be changed with newly Americanized formerly illegal immigrants?

 

Another interesting point of note is the fact that we do not currently require any citizen to pay (or have ever paid) taxes to be eligible to vote. I would imagine that this one requirement would evaporate much of the support currently found among our noble politicians. :thumb:

One of the problems I have with my President is his insistance to wage war to stop terrorism yet be so opposed to securing our borders.

LN, over the years I think it is safe to say that we generally share a similar point-of-view, and I always respect your opinion, but I’m not sure we’re even in the same zip code on this one… :lol:

I agree... under the Amnesty Bill however, they wouldn't remain illegal for long. All of a sudden we have an additional 12 to 20 million new citizens, most of whom toiling at or near the poverty level... and you already answered this puzzle when you stated the following: I agree with you.

 

Which brings us to this quandry:

We do not require any American citizen to "pay taxes" before they are eligible to tap into our bloated social services system today. What makes you think that it would, could our should be changed with newly Americanized formerly illegal immigrants?

 

Another interesting point of note is the fact that we do not currently require any citizen to pay (or have ever paid) taxes to be eligible to vote. I would imagine that this one requirement would evaporate much of the support currently found among our noble politicians. :thumb:

 

I didn't realize we were debating or even discussing the Amnesty Bill. I'm not in favor of giving the illegals voting rights and don't recall ever stating that I was. I was simply pointing out that there is a huge benefit to the economy provided by the illegal aliens and that if we can effectively stop them from coming into the country, there will be an effect on your and mine pocket book. You feel that eventually it will cost us more in paying for the social programs that the illegals will tap into than the increased cost of goods if we can stop them from coming into the country. I disagree with that because I'm not in favor of giving them the right to vote or allowing them access to our social programs. Furthermore, it doesn't bother me much that they don't pay taxes because even if we could track them and force them to file returns, most probably wouldn't pay much if any taxes. Thus the charge that they don't pay taxes is a red herring. If they want to do the low wage work that Americans will not do then, let them do so. However, they shouldn't get the right to vote or have access to the social programs. I agree we are usually in lock step on our thoughts, and I have a feeling we are closer on this issue than you might think. You're assuming that the illegals will all get to vote and have access to the social programs. I'm assuming that they won't. Again, I'm not in favor of the Immigration/Amnesty bill. But I don't think we can deny the positive effect that illegals have on the economy.

I didn't realize we were debating or even discussing the Amnesty Bill. I'm not in favor of giving the illegals voting rights and don't recall ever stating that I was. I was simply pointing out that there is a huge benefit to the economy provided by the illegal aliens and that if we can effectively stop them from coming into the country, there will be an effect on your and mine pocket book. You feel that eventually it will cost us more in paying for the social programs that the illegals will tap into than the increased cost of goods if we can stop them from coming into the country. I disagree with that because I'm not in favor of giving them the right to vote or allowing them access to our social programs.

We’re comparing apples and oranges here. Neither of us are in favor of granting illegals the right to vote or access to our social programs while they are still illegal aliens. On this point we agree 100%. The problem is, we cannot allow individuals to live, work and build families in this country for decades as illegal noncitizens. Our lovely congress will not allow it. There’s too many potentially grateful voters out there for them to ignore their own lust for power, and simply do what is right.

Furthermore, it doesn't bother me much that they don't pay taxes because even if we could track them and force them to file returns, most probably wouldn't pay much if any taxes. Thus the charge that they don't pay taxes is a red herring. If they want to do the low wage work that Americans will not do then, let them do so. However, they shouldn't get the right to vote or have access to the social programs.

Just as I was not suggesting that you thought illegals should be able to vote, I was not suggesting that illegals should pay taxes… while illegal noncitizens.

 

My concern was the recent “Comprehensive Immigration Bill” congress attempted to shove down our throats which would have ultimately and rapidly granted citizen status to over 12 million currently illegal aliens. By making this huge concession, we would have had an instant 4% increase to our population living at or below the poverty line, and certainly below a line of positive contribution to our tax system. These new citizens would not pay any significant amount of taxes. They would be eligible as citizens for every social program available, all their new children born here would be citizens drawing upon the same resources. Every one of them as citizens would be eligible to vote for the wonderful folks in congress who made it possible for them to short circuit the system and become Americans.

 

I agree we are usually in lock step on our thoughts, and I have a feeling we are closer on this issue than you might think. You're assuming that the illegals will all get to vote and have access to the social programs. I'm assuming that they won't. Again, I'm not in favor of the Immigration/Amnesty bill. But I don't think we can deny the positive effect that illegals have on the economy.

You can tell me that their immediate contribution is worth the trade. I say, the deal only works as long as illegals remain Mexican citizens working here for better wages. I do not like the fact they are here secretly, without documentation, without any way to expediently send them back on their way should it turn out they are here with less than noble reasons.

 

If we (our government) would quit making it so easy for people not to work, we might be amazed by the kinds of jobs Americans would be willing to do again.

 

By not cutting off the source of jobs that is drawing illegals across the border, we are essentially inviting them into our country. By cutting off the source of good money, we cut way down on illegals risking everything to appear in our backyard without going through the proper channels.

 

You say this would increase costs for many items. I say, so be it. I’d rather pay more for items I have some choice about purchasing, than be saddled for the rest of my life with increased taxes for the increased demand upon social entitlements by cheap laborers and their families that I have no choice about once they become citizens.