Just How Bad is David Ross?

[cooperstown]

It's already pretty well established that he's no better than an average defensive catcher. Why the Reds decided to throw all their eggs in his basket is beyond me. Granted Jason LaRue's time had come and gone (and he's been absolutely worthless for KC this year), but I think the Reds were a bit over-enamored with Ross' career year last year. Take away last season and you have a career .217 hitter. Heck, even with last year included, he's a career .227 hitter. He has a higher strikeout ratio this year than Adam Dunn, which is kind of significant when you consider that Dunn is on pace to crush his own strikeout record. Actually, Dunn's (1 every 3.03 AB) and Ross' (1 every 3.09 AB) career strikeout ratios are very similar. Valentin won't make anyone forget Johnny Bench anytime soon, but he's certainly a better full-time option than Ross at this point.

[HOMELESS CAMEL]

Maybe you didn't see Ross GUN DOWN a runner at 2nd last night! :lol:

 

I was the biggest Ross basher when he got off to that horrid season slump to start the year, BUT I will have to give credit to him lately.

 

Starting with the April 24th game against St Louis when he had 2 hits and going up to last game against Houston on the homestand. He batted 285.

 

I'm not going to count the road trip, since it seems the entire offense took the trip off. Ross was 2/10.

 

Who knows how the rest of the season will play out, I have to give him a LITTLE BIT of credit, not much, just a LITTLE BIT of credit for coming out of the slump. : )

[h.s.sportsrbest]

Valentin won't make anyone forget Johnny Bench anytime soon, but he's certainly a better full-time option than Ross at this point.

 

Valentin is the worst defensive / throwing / receiving catcher in baseball. There is a reason that the Reds brought Moeller up and put Javy back in the Rusty Staub role of getting 1 AB / night and then sitting down.

[cooperstown]

Maybe you didn't see Ross GUN DOWN a runner at 2nd last night! :lol:

 

I was the biggest Ross basher when he got off to that horrid season slump to start the year, BUT I will have to give credit to him lately.

 

Starting with the April 24th game against St Louis when he had 2 hits and going up to last game against Houston on the homestand. He batted 285.

 

I'm not going to count the road trip, since it seems the entire offense took the trip off. Ross was 2/10.

 

Who knows how the rest of the season will play out, I have to give him a LITTLE BIT of credit, not much, just a LITTLE BIT of credit for coming out of the slump. : )

 

Yes, I saw that throw. Stunning! He's not a bad defensive catcher - he's just nothing special. Certainly not special enough to put up with him hitting below his weight.

 

Unfortunately . . . stats on the road count the exact same as your stats at home. Yes, he's hit slightly better as of late, but the guy is still hitting .196 for the season. He just strikes out way, way too much. And he has only walked 4 times in over 100 PA's. His OBP is .238 - by far and away the lowest of any starter on the team. In fact, it's almost difficult to even have an OBP that low.

 

Give Javier a chance, I say. It's not as if he's going to do any worse than Ross or put the Red's season in jeopardy. :lol:

[cooperstown]

Valentin is the worst defensive / throwing / receiving catcher in baseball. There is a reason that the Reds brought Moeller up and put Javy back in the Rusty Staub role of getting 1 AB / night and then sitting down.

 

Well if he is the worst then that makes Ross one of the worst, as their career fielding stats are fairly similar.

 

Valentin: Ross:

2610 Innings 1975 Innings

21 Errors 19 Errors

21 Passed Balls 18 Passed Balls

.990 Fielding % .989 Fielding %

.321 Caught Stealing .403 Caught Stealing

5.1 Catcher's ERA 4.21 Catcher's ERA

(and Valentin caught for some horrific teams - 99 Min, 03 TB, and a bad 04 CIN).

 

Ross is better, but is he nothing special himself. Certainly not worth watching him set a new MLB strikeout pace.

[h.s.sportsrbest]

1 run a game (nearly) is fairly similar? Wow.

 

So a pitcher with an ERA of 3.50 and a guy at 4.40 are "fairly similar"? I'm not touting Ross offensively, but he is much better as a receiver / thrower. Ross is an all-or-nothing offensive player; there is no way around that.

[cooperstown]

Again, though, you have to look at the teams for whom they were catching. Valentin caught for some awful teams. Ross' only bad team was the 2005 Pirates. Ross is better, yes, yes, yes, I agree. But not so much so to allow him to hit .196. How could it possibly hurt the Reds to try Valentine full-time and see what happens? Just a guess, here, but it won't ruin their playoff shot. :lol:

[westsider]

.321 Caught Stealing .403 Caught Stealing

5.1 Catcher's ERA 4.21 Catcher's ERA

Neither of those stats are "fairly similar" ...

 

Ross' offensive collapse isn't totally unexpected. He did the same thing after he had a huge two months with the Dodgers in 2003, going pretty bad offensively from 2004-06. From what I've seen, his defense is solid.

[malachicrunch]

Catcher is one of the many areas in which this team is flawed. Since this is not one of the more glaring issues , I doubt it will be addressed soon.

[futurecoach]

He is bad, but not as bad as Larue still...

[westsider]

How could it possibly hurt the Reds to try Valentine full-time and see what happens?

Didn't they try that two years ago? The guy is a platoon player at best.

[cooperstown]

Didn't they try that two years ago? The guy is a platoon player at best.

 

I don't remember them giving Valentin a full-time shot. Maybe they did, I just don't remember. But Ross is also a platoon player at best. And given the Reds pitching and offense woes, I'd rather see more of the platoon player that can produce something at the plate. Something other than strike outs, that is.

[westsider]

I don't remember them giving Valentin a full-time shot. Maybe they did, I just don't remember. But Ross is also a platoon player at best. And given the Reds pitching and offense woes, I'd rather see more of the platoon player that can produce something at the plate. Something other than strike outs, that is.

A Valentin-Ross platoon could provide some sock, but the Reds prefer Ross' defense, I suppose.

 

Gee, something tells me you weren't complaining about Ross' strikeouts last year.

[cooperstown]

No, but it's not last year and it's now yet another problem the Reds have to fix if they ever want to become competitive. Ross tailed off incredibly at the end of last season and it's continued this season. His career basically rests on one half of one season (last year). Besides his low batting average, his OBP is ridiculous. 4 BB's in over a 100 PA's is awful. It's seem as though with each passing year, there are more things the Reds need to fix as opposed to less things and catcher is certainly on that list.

[All Play No Work]

Ross is terrible. Valentin is terrible. LaRue is terrible. I long for Bill Plummer.