According to this article they do:

 

BY RYAN ERNST | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

In the past few months, as high school football coaches have changed jobs like they change game plans, Ohio coaches have discovered a new reason to be jealous of their Kentucky counterparts. And it has nothing to do with 35-team divisions or a nearly all-inclusive playoff system.

 

It's because in the Commonwealth, hiring processes are like the Colonel's spices. They're secret.

 

The same doesn't go for Kentucky, where the state's revised statute reads: "Applications and résumés from unsuccessful applicants for state jobs are exempt from inspection or copying under the Open Records Law pursuant to KRS 61.878(1)(a) which provides as follows: Public records containing information of a personal nature where the public disclosure thereof would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy."

 

In English, if a coach wants a new job, it's none of your business, which is fine by Kentucky coaches.

 

The rest of the article

 

Another article on Ohio coaching openings

I am not a lawyer but that passage (which came from OAG 90-113) says "unsuccessful" and it does not address active applications and resumes but there are some other passages from the same law book that do:

 

Resumes and employment applications are subject to inspection. OAG 91-155.

 

The exception provided for "Public records containing information of a personal nature where the public disclosure thereof would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy" applies only to matters entirely unrelated to the performance of public employment. OAG 78-133.

 

It is reasonable to assume that applications, resumes and vitae contain information of a personal nature, similar to an employee's personnel file; the custodian of such requested documents could sanitize them of all information of a personal nature. OAG 89-17.

 

Do we have any lawyers in the house that can help us out?

 

What about other print media people in KY, do you agree with the Enquirer?

Furthermore, I read thought a lot of this stuff and the way I read it they mean things like address, phone number, etc. and not merely a name.

Legal doesn't always mean ethical. And, I think there's always need for some good judgment (just like in officiating) in these kind of matters. It's not good judgment to print these names, as was done in the Ohio job, purely because it causes other people harm and, frankly, not very professional.

 

Sure, it might be legal (at least in Ohio) and there might not be anything one can do about it, but it does cause a lot of harm to a good number of good people. Do we really want information so badly that our desire to have it is worth messing with people and their vocations?

According to this article they do:

 

BY RYAN ERNST | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

In the past few months, as high school football coaches have changed jobs like they change game plans, Ohio coaches have discovered a new reason to be jealous of their Kentucky counterparts. And it has nothing to do with 35-team divisions or a nearly all-inclusive playoff system.

 

It's because in the Commonwealth, hiring processes are like the Colonel's spices. They're secret.

 

The same doesn't go for Kentucky, where the state's revised statute reads: "Applications and résumés from unsuccessful applicants for state jobs are exempt from inspection or copying under the Open Records Law pursuant to KRS 61.878(1)(a) which provides as follows: Public records containing information of a personal nature where the public disclosure thereof would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy."

 

In English, if a coach wants a new job, it's none of your business, which is fine by Kentucky coaches.

 

The rest of the article

 

Another article on Ohio coaching openings

 

To specifically answer your question, yes. Kentucky's Open Records Laws and its hundreds of interpretations attempt to draw a fine line between the "need to know" and "the desire to know". They keep things out of the public eye that clear are not anyone's business related to personnel, discipline, hiring, and many other categories. In this internet based world, everyone wants to know everything, but disclosure should and must be limited to those things for which there is a material reason to be disclosed, and certainly, information related to the assignment of extra duty assignments (not full employment) would fit in the category where it only satisfies some people's desire to know. I think it would be different, for example, in Georgia, where the coaches are hired first and foremost as coaches, which is completely different than the situation in Kentucky.

 

Just an opinion.

I've always felt that it's fair game to report on who is pursuing a head coaching job, as long as the media source has solid information.

 

Case in point: the speculation that Mike Yeagle is a serious candidate for the Lloyd job. Yeagle is a big-name coach with an interesting set of circumstances ... if he's truly pursuing the Lloyd job, it's newsworthy.

 

I think part of the problem is the assumption that a coach applying for another job is unhappy in his current position. No one can blame a coach for looking into a position that may be better compensated or provides a better chance of winning consistently and contending for a state championship.

 

I can't blame a coach for using the application and interview process to look closely at a job ... sometimes the job isn't as attractive as it seems, or the applicant doesn't get the answers he is looking for in an interview, and the applicant takes himself out of consideration.

 

It happens quite often.

I've always felt that it's fair game to report on who is pursuing a head coaching job, as long as the media source has solid information.

 

Case in point: the speculation that Mike Yeagle is a serious candidate for the Lloyd job. Yeagle is a big-name coach with an interesting set of circumstances ... if he's truly pursuing the Lloyd job, it's newsworthy.

 

I think part of the problem is the assumption that a coach applying for another job is unhappy in his current position. No one can blame a coach for looking into a position that may be better compensated or provides a better chance of winning consistently and contending for a state championship.

 

I can't blame a coach for using the application and interview process to look closely at a job ... sometimes the job isn't as attractive as it seems, or the applicant doesn't get the answers he is looking for in an interview, and the applicant takes himself out of consideration.

 

It happens quite often.

 

Makes a lot of sense to me. :thumb:

To specifically answer your question, yes. Kentucky's Open Records Laws and its hundreds of interpretations attempt to draw a fine line between the "need to know" and "the desire to know". They keep things out of the public eye that clear are not anyone's business related to personnel, discipline, hiring, and many other categories. In this internet based world, everyone wants to know everything, but disclosure should and must be limited to those things for which there is a material reason to be disclosed, and certainly, information related to the assignment of extra duty assignments (not full employment) would fit in the category where it only satisfies some people's desire to know. I think it would be different, for example, in Georgia, where the coaches are hired first and foremost as coaches, which is completely different than the situation in Kentucky.

 

Just an opinion.

 

Every state has open records laws and Sunshine Laws that cover personnel, discipline, litigation, etc. That's not the point.

 

You lost me with the phrases "need to know," and, "desire to know". The correct term would be right to know, as we're talking about government agencies. Unless hiring a football coach is a matter of national security, I'm pretty sure the public has the right to know what's going on at their local high school. Their tax dollars give them ownership, and the constitution isn't real big on censorship.

I am not a lawyer but that passage (which came from OAG 90-113) says "unsuccessful" and it does not address active applications and resumes but there are some other passages from the same law book that do:

 

Resumes and employment applications are subject to inspection. OAG 91-155.

 

The exception provided for "Public records containing information of a personal nature where the public disclosure thereof would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy" applies only to matters entirely unrelated to the performance of public employment. OAG 78-133.

 

It is reasonable to assume that applications, resumes and vitae contain information of a personal nature, similar to an employee's personnel file; the custodian of such requested documents could sanitize them of all information of a personal nature. OAG 89-17.

 

Do we have any lawyers in the house that can help us out?

 

What about other print media people in KY, do you agree with the Enquirer?

 

I'd guess these laws are as strong as the litigation surrounding them. Until someone challenges the statute, it's rock solid. If challenged, I'd bet the names would have to be released.

 

Don't think for a second Ohio school districts volunteer this information because they want to. Every state has the same type open records laws. In Ohio, a legal precident was set, and thus the information must be given.

However, do they post the names of the applicants of every math job they have open ? How about science ? How has the internet/media affected the number of applicants that would actually apply for a job for fear that their current employer or current "team" would find out ?

 

Question: If a math teacher is working at a neighboring county and applies for a job in the next county because he/she thinks they will better their situation and will be compenstated better for the move why do we not post that on the KDE website or this website for that matter ? I know the answer, it's is because a change in math teachers does not interest the average citizen. Ask yourself this, if you applied for a new position, would YOU want your current employer or current co-workers to be able to read about it on the internet even before you had gone through the process or accepted the job ?

 

Food for thought.

However, do they post the names of the applicants of every math job they have open ? How about science ? How has the internet/media affected the number of applicants that would actually apply for a job for fear that their current employer or current "team" would find out ?

 

Question: If a math teacher is working at a neighboring county and applies for a job in the next county because he/she thinks they will better their situation and will be compenstated better for the move why do we not post that on the KDE website or this website for that matter ? I know the answer, it's is because a change in math teachers does not interest the average citizen. Ask yourself this, if you applied for a new position, would YOU want your current employer or current co-workers to be able to read about it on the internet even before you had gone through the process or accepted the job ?

 

Food for thought.

 

If you're directing the response in my direction, I'd be happy to respond, but you answered several of your own questions. What do you want an answer to specifically?

 

Don't kid yourself and think this is somehow about high school football coaches. Police and fire chief candidates, city manager candidates, school principal candidates, even public works director candidates all fall under this umbrella in Ohio. In fact, it was those positions and not the position of a football coach, that caused the change in how the law was interpretted.

 

And, yes, math teachers fall under the same umbrella.

Legally, any person, including the average citizen, has the right to inquire as to any institution's current status with their hiring process. This includes information pertaining to applications, a list of candidates who have undergone interviews, etc. Most people who call are probably told something along the lines of "we cant verify that information at this time" or some jargon that prevents the release of any information. However, the mistake many schools make is the assumption that they are legally protected from giving out that information which is incorrect.

As someone mentioned, it really becomes a matter of how knowledgeable someone is in the law and is able to correctly ask for the information within the limits of the law.

The reason why most schools or newspapers dont print this type of information is because it is often viewed as not newsworthy, except for when the decision has been made.

Now for a little bit of reality: The other reason they dont print this information is become some schools do not abide by the rules pertaining to the hiring process. Some ADs and Principals know who they want and will contact the coach and ask if they are interested. If so, then they say "ok, its yours but we cant make a formal announcement until the deadline passes for how long the opening is required to be made public". In the meantime, ADs are gifted at "we are reviewing resumes and will be making interviews in the next few weeks, blah blah blah." And yes, the school will keep a few resumes in case they get called on this. However, even though the decision has already been made, they can easily say that they are following proper protocol.

Thus, one of the nasty results of all of this is when coaches are hired and their current school has bitter feelings now because it was all done secretly. Thats just a chance you take, I guess, when you're a coach. But another thing to consider is that there is no privacy because an AD or a Principal can, and sometimes does, call the coach's current school to get background information on that coach. But this is nothing new because this type of thing happens everyday in normal worklife. If you want to change jobs, you have to assume the risk that your current employer may find out that you are attempting to do so. However, people should keep in mind that you can not be fired just because you are looking for another job elsewhere. (even though bosses can easily make up a good reason to let you go anyway).

I agree with the article and how KY handles it, and as Kissinger stated it's a matter of "need to know" and "the desire to know". As others have stated such as FBRULES, sometime it causes harm for those who apply and their name is leaked out, and all they want to do is look for what is best for their family and now they are hated for it.

 

Bringing up a name like Yeagle is different, he is not currently a head coach so no harm. But do you think if he was still at Beechwood it would sit will with some that he is applying at another local school? One that Beechwood plays? When Bernie Barre left Beechwood a lot of people were shocked, and he left to coach at his alma mater, I think that was handled nicely, no one really knew much about it, so after the news came out and the lose was accepted, most if not all were happy for him.

 

What if it was leaked out that Mueller put his name in at Cov Cath? I am sure all of KY will hear and feel the ground shake in Fort Thomas.

 

Some just want to test the waters, as well as see what they could possibly do at another school, or a bigger school. Do you really think that Kevin Siple at Indian Hill put his name in for the Mason job for the money? I don't think so, he has a very good thing going there and I think he is happy both with the quality of players as well as the financial situation there.

 

I am willing to say that a lot of the people who applied took their names out of consideration as soon as they found out that it was published that they applied. If Elder doesn't get back to their ways from about 4 years ago, I see Ramsey leaving Elder as it will be too difficult for him to stay. People will forgive you if you win, if not then they will only remember that you seemed to wanted out anyway and will want you out if not try to force you out. As in that article, a coach called the paper telling the reporter that he was ruined at his current job because of the article, im thinking it was Ramsey.

 

I also see this is backfiring for those schools with openings in Ohio from here on out, Some schools may have had very good coaches apply, or you may not get the number of applicants, as some are afraid to have their name out there searching for a new job.

 

Possibly holding names until the final selections when it'd down to a handful of candidates? Then allowing those people to back out before their names are possibly released to the public right before the final selection?

I agree with the article and how KY handles it, and =

What if it was leaked out that Mueller put his name in at Cov Cath? I am sure all of KY will hear and feel the ground shake in Fort Thomas.

 

Wow! Could'nt you have used a different scenario? That's reaching a tad don't you think? Never mind that though, I agree with your comments. :thumb:

Bringing up a name like Yeagle is different, he is not currently a head coach so no harm.

Good point.

But do you think if he was still at Beechwood it would sit will with some that he is applying at another local school? One that Beechwood plays?

For one thing, Lloyd isn't a school that Beechwood has to meet in the postseason. But if there was some compelling reason for Yeagle's interest in the job in this hypothetical situation, so be it.

When Bernie Barre left Beechwood a lot of people were shocked, and he left to coach at his alma mater, I think that was handled nicely, no one really knew much about it, so after the news came out and the lose was accepted, most if not all were happy for him.

Isn't that the way it should be?

What if it was leaked out that Mueller put his name in at Cov Cath? I am sure all of KY will hear and feel the ground shake in Fort Thomas.

If Dale Mueller applies for the Covington Catholic job, it's pretty freaking newsworthy. If Mueller had to deal with some fallout from it ... well, it was his choice to pursue the job.

I am willing to say that a lot of the people who applied took their names out of consideration as soon as they found out that it was published that they applied.

Maybe so, but why should they? If they had a legitimate interest in the job before the disclosure, why should that change anything?

 

Truth be told, some of the coaches on the list might have welcomed the disclosure ... it could give them some leverage at their current positions.

If Elder doesn't get back to their ways from about 4 years ago, I see Ramsey leaving Elder as it will be too difficult for him to stay. People will forgive you if you win, if not then they will only remember that you seemed to wanted out anyway and will want you out if not try to force you out.

Sounds a little like Covington Catholic and Rodenberg had the potential to be like that, given the reaction of some of the CovCath faithful to his departure.

 

I don't know a thing about the Ramsey-Elder situation, but it sounds as if things may already be difficult for him there.

As in that article, a coach called the paper telling the reporter that he was ruined at his current job because of the article, im thinking it was Ramsey.

He chose to apply for the job ... tough.

Possibly holding names until the final selections when it'd down to a handful of candidates? Then allowing those people to back out before their names are possibly released to the public right before the final selection?

I don't know why the local paper chose to disclose the entire list of applicants, but they obviously felt it was newsworthy. The Mason job is apparently one of the better ones out there, given the list of applicants, so it may very well be newsworthy.