I think a better question would be.... if you had to go somewhere and start a football program where would you go?  (not talking about a school without football I mean you as a HC are going to start and build...where would you choose?)

I believe it was lou holtz..... that said there are no open good jobs.... all the good jobs are taken.  with that said.... there are some great programs and communities listed on this thread.  I pose this question.... have those programs always been great? Good?  etc.....?   and I feel the answer is no.  Every great program was once not a good job and someone came in put the time in and started laying the foundations for success.  

 

Bump.

On 1/23/2024 at 11:13 AM, HedgeHog8 said:

"Most" people on this board are saying winning programs are good jobs. And it takes a lot to win any championship.

I see what you are saying. I agree with you actually. Although I don't see many losing-teams-that-play-hard still in the category of good jobs.

My thought provoking question is:

1. if you had Admin/community/parent support (the 3 pillars we can all agree are important)

2. kids played hard and did good in school

3. fundraised the program out of the ballpark

4. but regardless of who the coach is, cannot break .500 due to who they line up against each year

Is that still a good job? Ask a coach to sign up for a gig knowing there are not any/enough kids that can make the entire team competitive against the competition. Is that job attractive? Some places are not good jobs because half their schedule are already losses designed by the KHSAA, and the demographics can't/won't support the amount of athletes needed to match the success of their district contemporaries.

I've coached kids where the pre-game meal was literally more important than the game (in the grand scheme of things). Great experience, eye opening, rewarding. I wouldn't call it a good job though. @coachhawk said it, you have to have dudes walking the hallway. Then your culture can get them on the field.

I much preferred coaching in places like you mentioned, where the kids are from backgrounds that most of us can't even imagine.  Yes, the team meal was definitely more important than just about anything else.  Yes, kids missed practices and weights because they had to work so rent could be paid.  Yes, I got phone calls in the middle of the night from local police about someone that did something really stupid.  But in coaching those teams, you really, really make a difference in their lives.  Yes, the support is very low from the athletic dept, admin, parents, and community..... But I had a much better time dealing with all those struggles than when I coached at what most would consider to be "Powerhouse" programs.  There is so much contentment, "spoiledness" (yea I made that word up), and "me first attitudes" that you deal with at those winning, blue chip schools.  Someone is always stirring up drama at those places, typically some angry mom or dad that thinks little Johnny is a D1 athlete when he doesn't even start JV.  When you have a down year or struggle against tough competition, everyone knows better than you and is calling for your head.  In the places that struggle, people absolutely love the work that you put in and actually appreciate it, and you have much more opportunity to change lives.  Sure winning is great, but give me the teams with crappy uniforms, horrible weight room, and overall bad facilities all day because those kids will run through a brick wall and into oncoming traffic for you any day of the week.

19 hours ago, New Colonel said:

I much preferred coaching in places like you mentioned, where the kids are from backgrounds that most of us can't even imagine.  Yes, the team meal was definitely more important than just about anything else.  Yes, kids missed practices and weights because they had to work so rent could be paid.  Yes, I got phone calls in the middle of the night from local police about someone that did something really stupid.  But in coaching those teams, you really, really make a difference in their lives.  Yes, the support is very low from the athletic dept, admin, parents, and community..... But I had a much better time dealing with all those struggles than when I coached at what most would consider to be "Powerhouse" programs.  There is so much contentment, "spoiledness" (yea I made that word up), and "me first attitudes" that you deal with at those winning, blue chip schools.  Someone is always stirring up drama at those places, typically some angry mom or dad that thinks little Johnny is a D1 athlete when he doesn't even start JV.  When you have a down year or struggle against tough competition, everyone knows better than you and is calling for your head.  In the places that struggle, people absolutely love the work that you put in and actually appreciate it, and you have much more opportunity to change lives.  Sure winning is great, but give me the teams with crappy uniforms, horrible weight room, and overall bad facilities all day because those kids will run through a brick wall and into oncoming traffic for you any day of the week.

Leaders create a culture.  Culture drives behavior.  Behavior produces results.  The ceiling of those results can be associated with the athletic and coaching talent associated with a program.

My assumption would be that your experience at a "Powerhouse" program was one that experienced failure in some part of the performance pathway described above.  The construction of relationships is at the core of team performance.  If built properly, the outside factors that created your negative experience will be minimized.  There is no demographic group that can not benefit from an experience that builds core values and trust in relationships.  Striving to reach those high standards will impact rich/poor, entitled/needy, championship program/struggling programs.  If a program fails to invest into producing leaders and culture, you can only hope that those great kids walk through your doors every year.  My decades of involvement in high school athletics tell me that happens infrequently.

I agree with your conclusion that winning is not the ultimate reward in coaching.  While the goals of every program differ in wins/losses, every leader should hope to meet the personal challenges that individuals carry with them as they enter a locker room on a daily basis.  Those exist in every locker room, they just might be packaged a bit differently.

I think having a great rival is also what makes a job "good." I was raised by a St. X family (14 of em!) and was brought up in the rivalry. When I chose Trinity as an 8th grader, obviously I heard about it from all angles. It made me want to come in and dominate those guys right away. When I moved to the coaching side of things under Coach Beatty, the fire in me got so much more intense. Our administration, our alumni and our fans want nothing more than to beat the Tigers in all facets, not just on the gridiron. I know the feeling from over there is mutual and Coach Beatty (better than anyone ever in history, IMO) used that to his advantage.

We have been in a facilities arms race with them for the better part of 25 years now and both schools have drastically physically changed and have continued to be the best schools in Louisville for young men to attend. There are so many more advantages now for young men, and not just football players. ACT scores are up, scholarship money is up and our population is as high as its ever been. The competitive fire gives alumni a lot to be proud of and is very encouraging for those who are able to give back to do so.

All of that coupled with a football tradition that began with Quire, Kennedy, Moore and has continued with Lampley, Servino, Beatty and now Cobb makes Trinity the best job in the state. Are expectations high? Yes, but to beat St. X and win a state title, I can attest there is nothing better! ☘️

Bump.

On 2/27/2024 at 11:57 AM, New Colonel said:

I much preferred coaching in places like you mentioned, where the kids are from backgrounds that most of us can't even imagine.  Yes, the team meal was definitely more important than just about anything else.  Yes, kids missed practices and weights because they had to work so rent could be paid.  Yes, I got phone calls in the middle of the night from local police about someone that did something really stupid.  But in coaching those teams, you really, really make a difference in their lives.  Yes, the support is very low from the athletic dept, admin, parents, and community..... But I had a much better time dealing with all those struggles than when I coached at what most would consider to be "Powerhouse" programs.  There is so much contentment, "spoiledness" (yea I made that word up), and "me first attitudes" that you deal with at those winning, blue chip schools.  Someone is always stirring up drama at those places, typically some angry mom or dad that thinks little Johnny is a D1 athlete when he doesn't even start JV.  When you have a down year or struggle against tough competition, everyone knows better than you and is calling for your head.  In the places that struggle, people absolutely love the work that you put in and actually appreciate it, and you have much more opportunity to change lives.  Sure winning is great, but give me the teams with crappy uniforms, horrible weight room, and overall bad facilities all day because those kids will run through a brick wall and into oncoming traffic for you any day of the week.

Not saying the facilities, uniforms or weight rooms are crappy, but after reading your post, and that perspective, then Johnson central is the perfect job lol.  Plus you get tradition too. 

Bump.