3 minutes ago, Hearsay said:

Doesn't seem to be a lotta luv for Greenwood on this board.  I'm not from there so I have no idea.  I will say that I've been to recent sporting and school events and camps at South Warren, Warren East, Warren Central, Bowling Green, and Greenwood, and Greenwood appears to be in last place in the "upgrade to facilities" sweepstakes from new property taxation down there.  that's an outsider's perspective.  I've had two straight years of good experiences at their house with their fans, so perhaps my support for them comes not only from that, Lofton Howard, and an 80-man football roster, but that Greenwood seems treated like the poor relation down there.  Maybe its just me.

They're lilttler bro til they win something that's not softball / volleyball. With that said, I definitely am proud of the fact that GW usually beat (or competitive with) teams from surrounding counties.

45 minutes ago, Hearsay said:

Doesn't seem to be a lotta luv for Greenwood on this board.  I'm not from there so I have no idea.  I will say that I've been to recent sporting and school events and camps at South Warren, Warren East, Warren Central, Bowling Green, and Greenwood, and Greenwood appears to be in last place in the "upgrade to facilities" sweepstakes from new property taxation down there.  that's an outsider's perspective.  I've had two straight years of good experiences at their house with their fans, so perhaps my support for them comes not only from that, Lofton Howard, and an 80-man football roster, but that Greenwood seems treated like the poor relation down there.  Maybe its just me.

No.  You are not wrong about that.  And it’s even worse than most people know.  Like I said talk to some who have been really connected to the program off the record. You’ll get some interesting comments if they trust you. 

1 hour ago, Hearsay said:

Doesn't seem to be a lotta luv for Greenwood on this board.  I'm not from there so I have no idea.  I will say that I've been to recent sporting and school events and camps at South Warren, Warren East, Warren Central, Bowling Green, and Greenwood, and Greenwood appears to be in last place in the "upgrade to facilities" sweepstakes from new property taxation down there.  that's an outsider's perspective.  I've had two straight years of good experiences at their house with their fans, so perhaps my support for them comes not only from that, Lofton Howard, and an 80-man football roster, but that Greenwood seems treated like the poor relation down there.  Maybe its just me.

I like Greenwood.  I pull for them when they don't play BG.  

I think what @Hearsay says is correct regarding getting the short end of the Warren County funding stick.  Remember BG is in their own independent school district and has it's own funding.  I think your Bardstown team Hearsay has that too if I remember correctly.

We'll never know about the 2009 game.  I am curious as to the "Scheduling difficulties" mentioned though.

 

To back up my "best 3rd place team" in a district moniker (as Greenwood has never beaten BG and beaten South once and therefore third), the Gators have dominated the 4th place team in 5A District 2.  Since Greenwood moved from 6A District 2 to 5A District 2 from 2010 to 2011, Greenwood has defeated the #4 team in the 5A district 11 of 12 years.  That's pretty good.  They defeated Barren County from 2011 through 2018 every year but a 14-10 setback at Barren County in 2013.  The Gators have beaten Christian County EVERY YEAR they have played them in 5A District 2 from 2019 to a 42-0 walloping this year.

Last point, if, IF the favorite teams continue to win out, I'm projecting Greenwood to travel to Graves County in the first round of the playoffs.  IMO that's a winnable game for the Gators.  Not a given, but winnable.  They are 2-5 all time vs Graves, but 4 of those Graves wins were 2003 through 2006.  Graves won a shootout 42-56 in the 2013 playoffs and Greenwood has won the last 2, both at home and both in the first round of the playoffs (2015 and 2016) convincingly 38-6 and 44-17.  If it comes to that, I'll be pulling for the Gators in that game!

Could they pull off an upset this year vs South?  I've heard South is dealing with injuries.  We will see.

2 hours ago, PhenomxX said:

If only Greenwood played BG in 09...

Everyone involved in that scheduling process that cares at all for Greenwood should be absolutely HAUNTED by their choices.  I haven't the slightest idea what the actual truth of that situation was.  I remember the finger pointing by both sides and the answer is almost always in the middle.  But what I always come back to with Greenwood is that they knew the type of team that they were going to have in 2009 and had to know that it was their legit shot at getting Bowling Green.  They also already knew South was coming and that in a matter of a few years they would no longer possess the same numbers they had.  You should bend over backwards to make doggone sure you get that game scheduled. You can't let petty things get in the way, and I'm pretty sure they did.

Would Greenwood have won? Who knows.  But I think it would have certainly been competitive.  I watched Bowling Green and Greenwood play Warren Central on back to back weeks, and I certainly felt Greenwood played the Dragons better that year. 

14 minutes ago, DragonFire said:

Everyone involved in that scheduling process that cares at all for Greenwood should be absolutely HAUNTED by their choices.  I haven't the slightest idea what the actual truth of that situation was.  I remember the finger pointing by both sides and the answer is almost always in the middle.  But what I always come back to with Greenwood is that they knew the type of team that they were going to have in 2009 and had to know that it was their legit shot at getting Bowling Green.  They also already knew South was coming and that in a matter of a few years they would no longer possess the same numbers they had.  You should bend over backwards to make doggone sure you get that game scheduled. You can't let petty things get in the way, and I'm pretty sure they did.

Would Greenwood have won? Who knows.  But I think it would have certainly been competitive.  I watched Bowling Green and Greenwood play Warren Central on back to back weeks, and I certainly felt Greenwood played the Dragons better that year. 

The truth isn't usually in the middle when it comes to scheduling. If there is an opening you either want to play against a team or you don't. And the history of volunteering to play really hard teams speaks for itself.  

1 hour ago, Hearsay said:

Doesn't seem to be a lotta luv for Greenwood on this board.  I'm not from there so I have no idea.  I will say that I've been to recent sporting and school events and camps at South Warren, Warren East, Warren Central, Bowling Green, and Greenwood, and Greenwood appears to be in last place in the "upgrade to facilities" sweepstakes from new property taxation down there.  that's an outsider's perspective.  I've had two straight years of good experiences at their house with their fans, so perhaps my support for them comes not only from that, Lofton Howard, and an 80-man football roster, but that Greenwood seems treated like the poor relation down there.  Maybe its just me.

To me, Greenwood lately experiences a similar problem to what Central has dealt with twice - their alumni base got split/eroded.  They only got 20 years to build that up before South came along, and the Gators didn't have nearly enough success (in football in particular) to hold that base.  South is shiny and new, includes a lot of affluent areas, and as I've mentioned before was engineered to be the flagship school of the Warren County school system, in academics, sports, everything.  I've heard people refer to South Warren as equivalent to the "old" Warren Central (pre-Greenwood) - which infuriates me, naturally since, ya know, we're still here.  But what also is true is that they basically infer that South Warren is equivalent to Greenwood, but much more successful.  Literally everything they did to build was a response to the hell that Greenwood went through.  They poached almost every single head coach and administrator from Greenwood.  That's not an exagerration - I remember Penny Reece (softball) staying at Greenwood.  I think there was one other head coach who stayed - all the others left for one thing or another at South. Contrast that with when Greenwood opened that almost everyone stayed at Warren Central.  South started with a JV team instead of jumping straight into a varsity football schedule.  Greenwood elected differently, playing immediately and lost their first 28 games.  South did not play Warren Central or Bowling Green until they were forced to by being in district play (not that they'd have needed incentive with Central by the time that finally came along).  Greenwood played every single local team in their second season and didn't really compete with any of them until their sixth season. South started with a proven program builder in Mark Nelson.  Virgil Livers was a great assistant for Warren Central before taking the head coaching job at Greenwood and obviously had a great football pedigree, but it was his first (and only?) head coaching job. He went 2-39.  Just wasn't what they needed.  They never established the football program, and the basketball program suffered under the rise of Warren Central and the rebirth of Bowling Green, which stole any traction they had there.  Baseball was always good but underachieved almost exclusively, and then it was absolutely destroyed by South.  Point being, Greenwood did not maximize the time where they were the "new and shiny" school enough to stay ahead of South, and they share too many characteristics with South to differentiate and compete. And so in terms of a statewide following, just not a lot of juice for Greenwood. 

To the note about facility upgrades and being in last place, well, some of that of course is that the school is not all that old, just turning 32.  Just how aged could a lot of their stuff really be? They just got a very nice upgrade to their gym entrance, and considering how fast the school grew from when they were built to South being built, they had several additions/renovations to their building previously.  South only has newer stuff because it is a newer school.  And Greenwood was behind Warren Central and Warren East because those schools got nothing for years upon years.  When Central's school was renovated in 1998 they still had most of the same guts to the school as they did when it was built in 1950.  Everything about their football stadium was older than Greenwood itself when they finally renovated it.  And so on and so forth.  I don't know the details of East in as much detail but I'm fairly certain they were much the same. Greenwood is going to be next on a lot of priorities, I'm confident.  They just slotted in behind the other two schools which were neglected for much longer. 

54 minutes ago, Purple88 said:

I like Greenwood.  I pull for them when they don't play BG.  

I think what @Hearsay says is correct regarding getting the short end of the Warren County funding stick.  Remember BG is in their own independent school district and has it's own funding.  I think your Bardstown team Hearsay has that too if I remember correctly.

We'll never know about the 2009 game.  I am curious as to the "Scheduling difficulties" mentioned though.

 

To back up my "best 3rd place team" in a district moniker (as Greenwood has never beaten BG and beaten South once and therefore third), the Gators have dominated the 4th place team in 5A District 2.  Since Greenwood moved from 6A District 2 to 5A District 2 from 2010 to 2011, Greenwood has defeated the #4 team in the 5A district 11 of 12 years.  That's pretty good.  They defeated Barren County from 2011 through 2018 every year but a 14-10 setback at Barren County in 2013.  The Gators have beaten Christian County EVERY YEAR they have played them in 5A District 2 from 2019 to a 42-0 walloping this year.

Last point, if, IF the favorite teams continue to win out, I'm projecting Greenwood to travel to Graves County in the first round of the playoffs.  IMO that's a winnable game for the Gators.  Not a given, but winnable.  They are 2-5 all time vs Graves, but 4 of those Graves wins were 2003 through 2006.  Graves won a shootout 42-56 in the 2013 playoffs and Greenwood has won the last 2, both at home and both in the first round of the playoffs (2015 and 2016) convincingly 38-6 and 44-17.  If it comes to that, I'll be pulling for the Gators in that game!

Could they pull off an upset this year vs South?  I've heard South is dealing with injuries.  We will see.

Not a bad pick at all. Lofton Howard has the size and experience to give South Warren all they can handle.. I wouldn't be surprised if they can pull it off. After this game Friday, I think we will have a solid idea on how they can possibly fair.

12 minutes ago, Killowatt59 said:

The truth isn't usually in the middle when it comes to scheduling. If there is an opening you either want to play against a team or you don't. And the history of volunteering to play really hard teams speaks for itself.  

Ehhhhhhh - this is one I don't buy.  Greenwood has played Bowling Green every year but two in the entire history of the school.  They played them a lot of years when they weren't in the same class - 12 in a row at that point.  I don't think I can be sold very well on that narrative at that point in time.  Not fully.

My assumption has always been that one of the teams wanted the week moved (they'd played in Week 4 for six straight years), the other didn't or wanted to be difficult, and neither fought too hard to make sure it got resolved.  The who is who of that really doesn't matter to me.  But Greenwood should have made certain it got scheduled.

10 minutes ago, DragonFire said:

Ehhhhhhh - this is one I don't buy.  Greenwood has played Bowling Green every year but two in the entire history of the school.  They played them a lot of years when they weren't in the same class - 12 in a row at that point.  I don't think I can be sold very well on that narrative at that point in time.  Not fully.

My assumption has always been that one of the teams wanted the week moved (they'd played in Week 4 for six straight years), the other didn't or wanted to be difficult, and neither fought too hard to make sure it got resolved.  The who is who of that really doesn't matter to me.  But Greenwood should have made certain it got scheduled.

The entire city of BG was a vibe from 07-09, a whole lotta competitive teams with headliners. Shenard Holton / Lavance Anderson / Tevin Barksdale / Cortez Barber / etc.. all made Friday nights must see in BG.

1 hour ago, DragonFire said:

Ehhhhhhh - this is one I don't buy.  Greenwood has played Bowling Green every year but two in the entire history of the school.  They played them a lot of years when they weren't in the same class - 12 in a row at that point.  I don't think I can be sold very well on that narrative at that point in time.  Not fully.

My assumption has always been that one of the teams wanted the week moved (they'd played in Week 4 for six straight years), the other didn't or wanted to be difficult, and neither fought too hard to make sure it got resolved.  The who is who of that really doesn't matter to me.  But Greenwood should have made certain it got scheduled.

Don't have to buy it, but that doesn't mean it's not on the shelf. It's what it is. If you have an opening and you want to play, you'll play. If you don't, you won't. 

6 minutes ago, Killowatt59 said:

Don't have to buy it, but that doesn't mean it's not on the shelf. It's what it is. If you have an opening and you want to play, you'll play. If you don't, you won't. 

Tell me you know nothing about scheduling without telling me you know nothing about scheduling. 

12 minutes ago, Killowatt59 said:

Don't have to buy it, but that doesn't mean it's not on the shelf. It's what it is. If you have an opening and you want to play, you'll play. If you don't, you won't. 

What I know is this - the entire argument at the time was "we don't have an opening that week, we have it this one", an argument I'm fairly sure both sides were making.  Now, we both know Bowling Green didn't duck a team they've never lost to, but I also believe they weren't exactly going out of their way to make it easy on them either.  "If you have an opening and you want to play you'll play".  So because they didn't play does that mean Bowling Green didn't want to play? Neither of us believe that, of course, but you really can't effectively argue that of one team and not the other.  Takes both to agree on a date and they'd played 18 straight seasons, 12 straight of which they weren't in the same district, so it was a choice for Greenwood all that time.  Greenwood had/has absolutely no history of ducking Bowling Green.  I find it a severe stretch to believe they chose to do so leading into what was known to be their best team ever beforehand.  Which they backed up.

Regardless, I do feel comfortable continuing to note after all these years that Greenwood screwed up because they needed to get that game played, to take their best shot.  And they didn't.

40 minutes ago, bernies said:

Tell me you know nothing about scheduling without telling me you know nothing about scheduling. 

Way to add to the conversation.  You going to make a momma joke next?

I'm actually really enjoying the conversation.  People in the know on history of school decisions.  Good stuff.

I saw Greenwood play.  Big, swift, aggressive, and smart football players that get good push north-south and pursue well side-to-side.  I could see a really good passing attack pick them apart, but otherwise they are pretty fundamentally sound. Lets say it was Bowling Green 21 Greenwood 7, would that be a moral victory?

5 hours ago, Killowatt59 said:

No.  You are not wrong about that.  And it’s even worse than most people know.  Like I said talk to some who have been really connected to the program off the record. You’ll get some interesting comments if they trust you. 

Don’t throw stones from a glass house.