Perhaps you could argue that the players of the past were even better than those today since they accomplished more with less. I wonder how much more difficult it would be for Woods or Koepka if they had to play with the same clubs and balls that Johnny Miller had in 1973 when he shot a 63 at Oakmont.

 

The last tourney at Oakmont played like 500 yards longer than it did in 73.

The last tourney at Oakmont played like 500 yards longer than it did in 73.

 

I get that, as to most if not all courses that have hosted multiple major events. I guess you'd have to be able to determine if the magic balls and clubs used to today are able to offset the additional 500 yards. I'd guess that they more than compensate for it.

 

In 1980 (the earliest year for which this stat is available) the average driving distance for the PGA tour was 256.9. Presently that distance has increased to 295.3. So assuming that most courses have 14 holes that are non-par 3's that would equate to 537.6 yards on average. Seems to be about a wash when you factor in the fact that courses are playing longer vs. technological improvements in equipment.

I get that, as to most if not all courses that have hosted multiple major events. I guess you'd have to be able to determine if the magic balls and clubs used to today are able to offset the additional 500 yards. I'd guess that they more than compensate for it.

 

In 1980 (the earliest year for which this stat is available) the average driving distance for the PGA tour was 256.9. Presently that distance has increased to 295.3. So assuming that most courses have 14 holes that are non-par 3's that would equate to 537.6 yards on average. Seems to be about a wash when you factor in the fact that courses are playing longer vs. technological improvements in equipment.

 

I agree, also the guys today are in much better shape than the guys in the 70s IMO.

So the players aren't necessarily better, the technology is better.

The players are better because of the technology. I don’t think that there are just more naturally great golfers or athletes in general now a days. I just think we know how to better train athletes from a young age and groom them to become the athletes they are now. From nutrition, to training regimens, to technology. As we learn more and more, the athletes themselves get better and better. Golf is not the best example because the equipment changes alone make it extremely difficult to compare. We just know how to create better athletes now.

The players are better because of the technology. I don’t think that there are just more naturally great golfers or athletes in general now a days. I just think we know how to better train athletes from a young age and groom them to become the athletes they are now. From nutrition, to training regimens, to technology. As we learn more and more, the athletes themselves get better and better. Golf is not the best example because the equipment changes alone make it extremely difficult to compare. We just know how to create better athletes now.

So again, when skill is the biggest factor in a sport or even a position in a sport, today's athletes are no better than the were 10, 20, 30, or even 40 years ago. Guys today do not catch, kick, throw, or hit a ball any better today then be before. What is better is they are faster, more fit, and stronger. In a lot of positions in football that makes them better. In basketball it makes them better. In baseball it does not and in golf it doesn't. The main reason is natural skill plays a bigger part. I'm not saying the players of the past are better, I just think it's all the same.

So again, when skill is the biggest factor in a sport or even a position in a sport, today's athletes are no better than the were 10, 20, 30, or even 40 years ago. Guys today do not catch, kick, throw, or hit a ball any better today then be before. What is better is they are faster, more fit, and stronger. In a lot of positions in football that makes them better. In basketball it makes them better. In baseball it does not and in golf it doesn't. The main reason is natural skill plays a bigger part. I'm not saying the players of the past are better, I just think it's all the same.

What do you consider skill? Is it something you’re born with or something you develop over time? I think for any athlete that is able to play a sport professionally they are born with a certain skill level. But besides that I think skill is something you develop. Steph Curry was born with the ability to be able to shoot a basketball, he developed into the greatest shooter of all time. He wasn’t born to be the greatest shooter of all time, he made himself the greatest shooter. Same with Tiger Woods. He was blessed with the ability and hand eye coordination to hit a golf ball, but he developed into the greatest golfer that ever lived. So yes professional golfers 20, 30, 40 years ago and a professional golfers today were all born with the skill of hitting a golf ball, we just know way more about how to properly develop and train people into being professional golfers now than we did years ago so their skill level is higher. There have always been revolutionary players in the sport like Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods who were the best players in their era. But who’s the best player in the world right now? You could ask 10 people and get at least 6-7 different answers. This is something I don’t think we’ve ever seen in golf’s history before. IMO it’s because we have advanced so much with regards to how the game is taught and how the game is played that it allows more players than ever to play at an extremely high level.

What do you consider skill? Is it something you’re born with or something you develop over time? I think for any athlete that is able to play a sport professionally they are born with a certain skill level. But besides that I think skill is something you develop. Steph Curry was born with the ability to be able to shoot a basketball, he developed into the greatest shooter of all time. He wasn’t born to be the greatest shooter of all time, he made himself the greatest shooter. Same with Tiger Woods. He was blessed with the ability and hand eye coordination to hit a golf ball, but he developed into the greatest golfer that ever lived. So yes professional golfers 20, 30, 40 years ago and a professional golfers today were all born with the skill of hitting a golf ball, we just know way more about how to properly develop and train people into being professional golfers now than we did years ago so their skill level is higher. There have always been revolutionary players in the sport like Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus, Tiger Woods who were the best players in their era. But who’s the best player in the world right now? You could ask 10 people and get at least 6-7 different answers. This is something I don’t think we’ve ever seen in golf’s history before. IMO it’s because we have advanced so much with regards to how the game is taught and how the game is played that it allows more players than ever to play at an extremely high level.

Skill is no different than speed for example. Everyone is born with a certain amount of speed. You can train and get faster but you will ultimately be limited by you natural ability.

 

Just because you could name 6-7 different golfers as the best doesn't mean there a more good golfers today. It just means you don't have that one dominate golfer like Tiger was for 15 or so years. Go back to the 80's and most of the 90's. You would also get 6-7 different golfers as answers to whose the best.

Skill is no different than speed for example. Everyone is born with a certain amount of speed. You can train and get faster but you will ultimately be limited by you natural ability.

 

Just because you could name 6-7 different golfers as the best doesn't mean there a more good golfers today. It just means you don't have that one dominate golfer like Tiger was for 15 or so years. Go back to the 80's and most of the 90's. You would also get 6-7 different golfers as answers to whose the best.

I guess I kind of agree with you on the fact that you are somewhat limited by your natural ability, but then I watch guys like Rory and JT who are 5’8 140 pounds soaking wet and pump the ball out there 320 yards. That’s not natural that’s earned from hours upon hours of practice and examining every part of their swing to maximize their ability to hit a golf ball a long way. But again we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I think it clearly shows that there are more great golfers now than ever before because of the parity. I think it’s impossible to have a dominant golfer like Tiger in this era.

I guess I kind of agree with you on the fact that you are somewhat limited by your natural ability, but then I watch guys like Rory and JT who are 5’8 140 pounds soaking wet and pump the ball out there 320 yards. That’s not natural that’s earned from hours upon hours of practice and examining every part of their swing to maximize their ability to hit a golf ball a long way. But again we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I think it clearly shows that there are more great golfers now than ever before because of the parity. I think it’s impossible to have a dominant golfer like Tiger in this era.

Distance on drives has way more to do with leverage than strength. Thomas gets more out of his swing then pretty much anyone I've seen. You are correct that takes a ton of practice to be able to swing like that and still make solid contact and have control. That said I think some of that is still just natural ability. Look at a guy like Stenson. He's a pretty big dude and you would think have better distance. He averages like 25 yards less than Thomas. That said Stenson is 2nd in driving accuracy and Thomas is 147th. Mcllroy is 1st in distance and 180th in accuracy (he's also bigger at 5'10" and 160lbs). The younger guys are killing it in distance but struggle with accuracy, almost all of them.

Distance on drives has way more to do with leverage than strength. Thomas gets more out of his swing then pretty much anyone I've seen. You are correct that takes a ton of practice to be able to swing like that and still make solid contact and have control. That said I think some of that is still just natural ability. Look at a guy like Stenson. He's a pretty big dude and you would think have better distance. He averages like 25 yards less than Thomas. That said Stenson is 2nd in driving accuracy and Thomas is 147th. Mcllroy is 1st in distance and 180th in accuracy (he's also bigger at 5'10" and 160lbs). The younger guys are killing it in distance but struggle with accuracy, almost all of them.

The young guys struggling with accuracy and focusing on distance is a direct result of Tiger. Tiger never has been an accurate driver. He’s always been hit it a long way and go find it off the tee kind of guy. His iron game was/ is just on a level where it doesn’t really matter if he hits the fairway. Outside of the US Open you aren’t really penalize for missing the fairway. The big difference between old Tiger and Tiger today is he doesn’t have the ability to make sure he puts one in the fairway when he needs to

like he needed on 17 at the PGA.