October 9, 200619 yr Author Whitworth is experienced at left guard in the NFL? Are you saying that Steinbach can't make the line calls from left guard? Admittedly, I've never played O-line a day in my life, at any level, but I have to believe that someone other than the center is able to make the line calls occasionally? If I'm wrong, I'll stand corrected, because again, I've never taken a snap in my life on the line. Were talking about a complex no huddle O facing a multitude of blitzing and attacking Ds over a six game stretch. So, if I have to play a young guy, I would prefer it's at LG over C. Like I said earlier, my main concern is that there's now two games of tape showing how to exploit the line, and 4 defensive units that can duplicate that attack. There is no way around the huge sack numbers in two games with EG at C...
October 9, 200619 yr Were talking about a complex no huddle O facing a multitude of blitzing and attacking Ds over a six game stretch. So, if I have to play a young guy, I would prefer it's at LG over C. Like I said earlier, my main concern is that there's now two games of tape showing how to exploit the line, and 4 defensive units that can duplicate that attack. There is no way around the huge sack numbers in two games with EG at C... Well, I realize it's a cop-out, but I'll stick with it: I'm assuming that Marvin and Co. understand the situation, and if they're okay with him there it works for me. I can't pretend to understand the complexity of playing Center in the NFL, but I trust that if EG was making egregious errors, they'd get him out. Again, thanks for the refresher on the Bengals playing "a complex no huddle O..." I missed that.
October 9, 200619 yr Author Again, thanks for the refresher on the Bengals playing "a complex no huddle O..." I missed that. Did you miss that it's been just about nonexistant in the two games with EG as well???
October 9, 200619 yr Did you miss that it's been just about nonexistant in the two games with EG as well??? Well, I didn't miss that CP, by his own admission, has played poorly (allow me to be among the first to say he has happy feet, isn't comfortable in the pocket, and in general is not past the knee mentally at this point); I didn't miss that injuires and suspensions have effected the team on the field (and probably in the clubhouse); I didn't miss that the team never plays well at home; I didn't miss that Belichik is still a better coach than Marvin and showed it in PBS; I didn't miss that Reggie Kelly isn't a great lead blocker, which is his role in all running plays out of the no-huddle; I didn't miss that #85 and #9 aren't on the same page, and that with #84 hobbled and #15 sitting next to Marvin, the passing game has been an issue. So no, I didn't miss any of that. You're making Ghiaciuc a scapegoat, and fortunately for him, Marvin knows better.
October 9, 200619 yr I, too, have always wondered why the center HAS to make the calls. Does he see something that a guard cannot?
October 9, 200619 yr Author Well, I didn't miss that CP, by his own admission, has played poorly (allow me to be among the first to say he has happy feet, isn't comfortable in the pocket, and in general is not past the knee mentally at this point); I didn't miss that injuires and suspensions have effected the team on the field (and probably in the clubhouse); I didn't miss that the team never plays well at home; I didn't miss that Belichik is still a better coach than Marvin and showed it in PBS; I didn't miss that Reggie Kelly isn't a great lead blocker, which is his role in all running plays out of the no-huddle; I didn't miss that #85 and #9 aren't on the same page, and that with #84 hobbled and #15 sitting next to Marvin, the passing game has been an issue. So no, I didn't miss any of that. You're making Ghiaciuc a scapegoat, and fortunately for him, Marvin knows better. 1. Maybe the happy feet, and problems in the pocket are related to a line that has been below average at keeping pressure off Carson. When I've rewatched the two games, it's clear that teams are attacking the C and the G who's helping him. You're right. Marvin's the Coach. He gets the final say. And at least today, that say was Steinbach snapping the rock with the 1st team. 2. How can you make a guy the highest paid FB in history, and reduce his role. Drives me nuts...
October 9, 200619 yr 2. How can you make a guy the highest paid FB in history, and reduce his role. Drives me nuts... So you're agreeing with me? What I don't get is Jeremi is a great pass-catcher and a great lead blocker, Reggie is a very good pass catcher but appears to be average at best at leading Rudi into a hole. On the first point, not quoted, we'll agree to disagree. I don't think Carson is comfortable back there; could it be because Levi and Willie are hobbled and Richie is missing, sure. I think it also has to do with the fact that he just isn't comfortable with people around his legs right now. Not to mention, #85 is out of the picture (blame defenses if you'd like, I can't put my finger on it -- Steve Smith, Torry Holt and Marvin find a way to get balls), #84 is hobbled, #15 is an idiot, #87 is ... thinking ... #87, Tab is hurt, Antonio is injured, Reggie is a QB learning WR...etc.
October 9, 200619 yr Well, I didn't miss that CP, by his own admission, has played poorly (allow me to be among the first to say he has happy feet, isn't comfortable in the pocket, and in general is not past the knee mentally at this point); I didn't miss that injuires and suspensions have effected the team on the field (and probably in the clubhouse); I didn't miss that the team never plays well at home; I didn't miss that Belichik is still a better coach than Marvin and showed it in PBS; I didn't miss that Reggie Kelly isn't a great lead blocker, which is his role in all running plays out of the no-huddle; I didn't miss that #85 and #9 aren't on the same page, and that with #84 hobbled and #15 sitting next to Marvin, the passing game has been an issue. So no, I didn't miss any of that. You're making Ghiaciuc a scapegoat, and fortunately for him, Marvin knows better. I think he's taking the blame because leaders shoulder responsibility even though it isn't their fault. His happy feet, and the drops are from constant pressure. Every play he is hurried and feet dance and arms flail when there is constant pressure. Your other points are good, but with Carson I think the blame lands on the offensive line opposed to the knee.
October 9, 200619 yr Author So you're agreeing with me? On that one point, yes. I do not want to see Kelly or Stewart leading the way in the run game...
October 9, 200619 yr Your other points are good, but with Carson I think the blame lands on the offensive line opposed to the knee. I think the O-line is part of the problem, sure. I just think it's more than just Eric at Center -- Levi has been average at best (and hobbled) and Willie hasn't been very good either. Now is all of that Eric's fault, frankly, I don't know enough to know; but I'd bet if it was he'd be out of there. That's all I'm saying. I think there are many factors that are leading to Carson not being Carson, the pressure is certainly among them.
October 9, 200619 yr I, too, have always wondered why the center HAS to make the calls. Does he see something that a guard cannot? Typically he makes "the call" that the others make calls off of. We called it base blocking in High School and I'm sure it's more complex in the NFL. Tackles and end make calls that only effect them. Guards and tackles do the same. If the first guy(center) misses the call then all the other calls can fail. I'm sure the guard calling it could tip plays and cause extra communication problems.
October 9, 200619 yr I think the O-line is part of the problem, sure. I just think it's more than just Eric at Center -- Levi has been average at best (and hobbled) and Willie hasn't been very good either. Now is all of that Eric's fault, frankly, I don't know enough to know; but I'd bet if it was he'd be out of there. That's all I'm saying. I think there are many factors that are leading to Carson not being Carson, the pressure is certainly among them. Really, the Braham being out is the biggest problem.
October 9, 200619 yr Really, the Braham being out is the biggest problem. You clearly have a better understanding of O-line play than I do, I concede that. However, I'm not ready to agree with you here. I may be alone, but I don't think CP is 100% comfortable and I think the WR situation is a big problem. Again, however, I think the O-line has been very average thus far, and I'm sure "some" of that falls on the Braham injury. I just think Levi and Willie being hobbled and getting beaten some is simply the result of them not being healthy and not a matter of incorrect line pick-ups. However, again, just to be clear -- you know more about the o-line play than I do.
October 9, 200619 yr Typically he makes "the call" that the others make calls off of. We called it base blocking in High School and I'm sure it's more complex in the NFL. Tackles and end make calls that only effect them. Guards and tackles do the same. If the first guy(center) misses the call then all the other calls can fail. I'm sure the guard calling it could tip plays and cause extra communication problems. Why does it matter who makes the initial call? If Steinbach is smart enough to be the center and make the call, why can't he make the same call from the center position and then , as you say, everyone else makes adjustments? What is it about being lined up over the football that makes one not as smart as if they were 2 feet to the right or left?
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