Start playing better

Start playing better

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Ok, lets not fool ourselves here. First and foremost, it starts with talent. Great talent can be in the running for a championship most years and win a state championship with average coaching. Put that great talent together with a great coaching staff, and you are talking multiple state championships. Now sprinkle in top notch youth/middle school programs, good facilities and community/school support, and you are talking dynasty. That's where BG is right now. All of this combined probably eliminates 90% of the schools in their class. Those schools will lack at least one of the above components, and most of them multiple components. So essentially BG is competing with maybe 3-4 schools on a yearly basis for the state championship. And maybe any one specific year not even that many as even these 3-4 schools seem to ebb and flow with talent more than BG does. One could argue Highlands is at that point right now and maybe Pulaski County as well.

 

Quick example. In 2011 Anderson County had arguably their best team ever, went 12-2 getting to the 5A state championship against BG. BG beat them 55-3. Now AC probably was not the second best 5A team in the state that year, but top 4-5 for sure. Anderson is one of those 90% schools I mentioned above that will be missing at least one if not multiple key ingredients to compete. Primarily for them raw talent when compared to the likes of a BG, if not other things as well.

 

So, to the posters point...what's it take for 5A to catch up?

 

1. Teams have to line up equitable or close to equitable talent.

2. Top notch coaching

3. Kids that "buy in" to the system and what the coaches are teaching and work hard.

4. Good youth programs that stress solid fundamentals.

5. School and community support (top notch booster program).

6. Good facilities., and this goes above just a nice football field. Weight room, indoor training facilities, etc. are included in this too.

 

As I mentioned, not many schools are going to have all the things above that it takes to consistently compete.

Christian County "can" do it but their staff hasn't proven to be able to get the kids out to play or have the discipline needed to compete.

 

Christian County certainly has the talent in the hallways.

Ok, lets not fool ourselves here. First and foremost, it starts with talent. Great talent can be in the running for a championship most years and win a state championship with average coaching. Put that great talent together with a great coaching staff, and you are talking multiple state championships. Now sprinkle in top notch youth/middle school programs, good facilities and community/school support, and you are talking dynasty. That's where BG is right now. All of this combined probably eliminates 90% of the schools in their class. Those schools will lack at least one of the above components, and most of them multiple components. So essentially BG is competing with maybe 3-4 schools on a yearly basis for the state championship. And maybe any one specific year not even that many as even these 3-4 schools seem to ebb and flow with talent more than BG does. One could argue Highlands is at that point right now and maybe Pulaski County as well.

 

Quick example. In 2011 Anderson County had arguably their best team ever, went 12-2 getting to the 5A state championship against BG. BG beat them 55-3. Now AC probably was not the second best 5A team in the state that year, but top 4-5 for sure. Anderson is one of those 90% schools I mentioned above that will be missing at least one if not multiple key ingredients to compete. Primarily for them raw talent when compared to the likes of a BG, if not other things as well.

 

So, to the posters point...what's it take for 5A to catch up?

 

1. Teams have to line up equitable or close to equitable talent.

2. Top notch coaching

3. Kids that "buy in" to the system and what the coaches are teaching and work hard.

4. Good youth programs that stress solid fundamentals.

5. School and community support (top notch booster program).

6. Good facilities., and this goes above just a nice football field. Weight room, indoor training facilities, etc. are included in this too.

 

As I mentioned, not many schools are going to have all the things above that it takes to consistently compete.

Great post except for the bolded part. Nobody has ever won the championship with average coaching. You should know that you're a coach.

Talent gets you 7-8 wins. Discipline pushes that to 9. Then when you get leadership, that’s when the magic happens. – Urban Meyer

Great post except for the bolded part. Nobody has ever won the championship with average coaching. You should know that you're a coach.

Talent gets you 7-8 wins. Discipline pushes that to 9. Then when you get leadership, that’s when the magic happens. – Urban Meyer

 

Have to say I completely disagree with what I bolded. Now maybe it doesn't happen every year or doesn't happen that often necessarily around here in KY, but absolutely great talent can overcome average coaching in a given season. Now I'm not saying bad coaching...an average coach isn't a bad coach. But it's also why a school that may have consistently great talent with average coaching would never meet that elite, dynasty level because the team would probably more often than not lose along the way games they shouldn't when an average coach would get outmatched by a superior coaching staff.

Have to say I completely disagree with what I bolded. Now maybe it doesn't happen every year or doesn't happen that often necessarily around here in KY, but absolutely great talent can overcome average coaching in a given season. Now I'm not saying bad coaching...an average coach isn't a bad coach. But it's also why a school that may have consistently great talent with average coaching would never meet that elite, dynasty level because the team would probably more often than not lose along the way games they shouldn't when an average coach would get outmatched by a superior coaching staff.

 

Give me a list of KY state champions with what you consider average coach. I go all the way back to late 80's as far as my ability to evaluate a coach.

Bowling green is definitely one of the best teams in the state..It will take a perfect effort for any 5A team to upset them this year, but I feel it's somewhat possible..

 

I know some people will disagree with me, but don't sleep on graves county outta the west..also, greenwood is much improved..now, I'm not saying their better teams, but as Graves county proved in 2014, the beast doesn't always conquer it's prey!..

 

Skill positions...Mayfield...that's what keeps Graves (IMO) from being in the conversation.

Pull out old game film lol it doesn't seem like anyone is currently in their league.

Give me a list of KY state champions with what you consider average coach. I go all the way back to late 80's as far as my ability to evaluate a coach.

 

I am waaaaaaaay to unfamiliar with football program coaching staffs across the state to point to any specific team, and even if I was more familiar I would be reticent to point someone out specifically.

I am waaaaaaaay to unfamiliar with football program coaching staffs across the state to point to any specific team, and even if I was more familiar I would be reticent to point someone out specifically.

 

So, I win. There is no actual evidence of an average coaching staff with rings since the late 80s, just a vague feeling you have.

So, I win. There is no actual evidence of an average coaching staff with rings since the late 80s, just a vague feeling you have.

 

If you think teams haven't won championships with great talent and average coaching IN EVERY SPORT at the high school level, not just football, I really believe you are fooling yourself. And lets say that it's never happened in KY for the sake of argument, and maybe it never has...it's happened almost every where else at some point in time, so I'm not sure why KY would be any different. Also I just made a general statement in my first post "great talent with average coaching can win a state championship" in a given year. That wasn't specific to just KY, it was a general statement.

If you think teams haven't won championships with great talent and average coaching IN EVERY SPORT at the high school level, not just football, I really believe you are fooling yourself. And lets say that it's never happened in KY for the sake of argument, and maybe it never has...it's happened almost every where else at some point in time, so I'm not sure why KY would be any different. Also I just made a general statement in my first post "great talent with average coaching can win a state championship" in a given year. That wasn't specific to just KY, it was a general statement.

 

I think you are fooling yourself. You have no example. Talk to some coaches who have won rings and ask them what it takes and if they have ever seen an average staff win it in any class in any state in football.

The point to say that coaching doesn't have a major impact is a bit out there. You need to have good coaching to be able to compete at a championship level. Yes, I agree you wouldn't be able to put Bill Belichick at Logan County and have instant success because the talent just isn't there. But, on the same point, you can't expect to put a little league coach behind a Trinity, Bowling Green, or a Mayfield and expect to win a state championship. Coaching matters, and that's why you consistently see these same teams in the finals. They continue to have good coaches who understand how to break down opponents and are able to change things up. Remember, they are the one's who teach these kids with great athletic abilities to utilize it to the best of their abilities.

I think you are fooling yourself. You have no example. Talk to some coaches who have won rings and ask them what it takes and if they have ever seen an average staff win it in any class in any state in football.

 

I've seen it in other sports, I know it happens. Admittedly I am not nearly as familiar with KY high school football as you and/or others are or may be, but if you want to deal in absolutes and say that it has never happened then I would say you are absolutely wrong. Is it common, does it happen every year? Of course not. But if you just disagree with my general statement that great talent and average coaching has won a state championship here and there, well we are just not going to agree on that point.

 

The point to say that coaching doesn't have a major impact is a bit out there. You need to have good coaching to be able to compete at a championship level. Yes, I agree you wouldn't be able to put Bill Belichick at Logan County and have instant success because the talent just isn't there. But, on the same point, you can't expect to put a little league coach behind a Trinity, Bowling Green, or a Mayfield and expect to win a state championship. Coaching matters, and that's why you consistently see these same teams in the finals. They continue to have good coaches who understand how to break down opponents and are able to change things up. Remember, they are the one's who teach these kids with great athletic abilities to utilize it to the best of their abilities.

 

Not quite sure where you got that Purple. I never said that or even alluded to that. I coach myself (not football) and I KNOW how important coaching is, believe me. I have gone against coaches and thought "man, that guy's not real good"...and I've left games thinking "crap, that guy just handed me my butt and gave me seconds". I would NEVER disregard coaching, especially on the high school level. With that said, there have been times when an average coach/staff have walked away with a state championship because the talent they had was just so much better than their relative competition. And if it's never happened in KY as 4theCats alludes to above, well then I guess it's just the one place it hasn't happened.