What were the reasons for trading Frazier? Can someone explain the contract issues involved in the trade,etc. Also, the explanation for why Phillips didn't take the Nats offer, was he losing money?

What's the rule that Stephenson and Reed had to stay in the minors until a certain date, can someone explain that rule and how it affects contracts,etc. Thanks

What they said at the time was that they wanted to add prospects who they thought could help the team 2 or 3 yrs. down the road. Frazier stood to go from $3.75m last year to $8.25m for 2016 and would be Arb3 for 2017 and a FA in 2018. What I read was that Phillips wanted to renegotiate his contract to add at least a 3rd year beyond 2017 which is Phillips FA year and the Nats weren't willing to do that. The attached link might help you understand the free agency rules. I don't even attempt to try to totally understand them myself.

 

A Rundown of Major League Baseball's Free Agency Rules

The Reds decided they could not afford the players required to compete. That's why Frazier was dispatched along with the others. Nothing more than that.

 

Phillips had the right to veto any trade due to being a 10 and 5 guy. In order to authorize the trade he wanted the Nationals to extend his existing contract. Nationals declined so no trade.

 

There is not a "hard date" for the players like Stephenson to get called up. The clubs wait in order to gain one more year of control. If they have 172 days of "service time" they get credited with a season towards the eligibility clock. Kris Bryant was recalled one day after he would have allowed him to get 172 service days. It's obviously a date early in the season.

 

However, players who have more than 2 years but less than 3 CAN qualify for arbitration a year earlier IF they are in the top 22% of players in that category. Since teams do not know how many players will ultimately land in the 2 to 3 range it's a crap shoot/educated guess as to when a player can be called up without giving him that desired year.

What they said at the time was that they wanted to add prospects who they thought could help the team 2 or 3 yrs. down the road. Frazier stood to go from $3.75m last year to $8.25m for 2016 and would be Arb3 for 2017 and a FA in 2018. What I read was that Phillips wanted to renegotiate his contract to add at least a 3rd year beyond 2017 which is Phillips FA year and the Nats weren't willing to do that. The attached link might help you understand the free agency rules. I don't even attempt to try to totally understand them myself.

 

A Rundown of Major League Baseball's Free Agency Rules

 

Was there a reason at the time why the club wouldnt pay the relatively low price for this season(8.2, you said) and either negotiate for a longer contract or trade? Never fully understood why he was traded at the time. Does Cozart follow under the same protocol as Frazier did? In Phillips case, he went on twitter as though the trade was a done deal, haven't never understood why he didn't end up a National. Will Stephenson be called up before the rosters are increased? Somebody goes down when Bailey arrives, does a reliever leave when Stephenson gets called up?

Was there a reason at the time why the club wouldnt pay the relatively low price for this season(8.2, you said) and either negotiate for a longer contract or trade? Never fully understood why he was traded at the time. Does Cozart follow under the same protocol as Frazier did? In Phillips case, he went on twitter as though the trade was a done deal, haven't never understood why he didn't end up a National.

 

Why pay Frazier even the 8 million if you could turn him into a few prospects? The reality for us is, the Reds knew their reality and knew they weren't going to be good, so why waste the money on him? Plus they knew they weren't going to resign him, so the earlier they traded him, the more value her had. Sucks, but it was the right business decision.

 

Phillips just wanted an extension to his contact, Nationals wouldn't give it to him, so he declined the trade. I think Phillips played hardball with the Nationals expect them to go ahead and offer the contract extension, they didn't, so we still have him.

 

I would say Cozart & Bruce are both in similar situations as Frazier, but someone who follows contracts closer may be able to elaborate more. I just know, there is no point in keeping guys over the next year or two if we are going to suck when we could be potentially replenishing our farm system and develop guys for when the team is ready to potentially be good again (maybe 2018).

Was there a reason at the time why the club wouldnt pay the relatively low price for this season(8.2, you said) and either negotiate for a longer contract or trade? Never fully understood why he was traded at the time. Does Cozart follow under the same protocol as Frazier did? In Phillips case, he went on twitter as though the trade was a done deal, haven't never understood why he didn't end up a National. Will Stephenson be called up before the rosters are increased? Somebody goes down when Bailey arrives, does a reliever leave when Stephenson gets called up?

 

See what MJAllthe Way24 says above. As for the roster expansion, change, etc. who knows what they plan to do. I think that it could be a very ineresting trade deadline for the Reds. They still have a few pieces that could help teams, ie. Cozart, Bruce and maybe Phillips. They do have a surplus of young pitching now and have quite a few lefties that other teams might like to add to their pens. Maybe they have been showcasing some of them. Who knows maybe they eat some of Votto's money to dump that albatross of a contract.

Cozart - earlier in the season, maybe a contender takes a flier that he is changed after a good half season before injury in 2015 and a very good start to 2016. By now, he has confirmed that the back of his baseball card is accurate and don't suspect he'd garner much more than some mid-level prospects. Still may be worth doing, but it won't yield anything stunning.

 

Phillips - unless there is an injury to a meh 2B on a contending team with nobody in the farm system, he ain't going anywhere. Not going to yield any prospects because BP's salary exceeds his limited value. Suspect he's here until his contract expires.

 

Votto - much better player with more years left than BP, but his contract is also ridiculously more onerous. I think the Reds would have to eat most of the contract to move him and if you do that, you're not going to get any prospects worth talking about (or you're going to have to eat much more $ on his contract than the Reds would be willing to)

 

Bruce - I think he's gone shortly after the ASG. Hope he does well. He'll bring some prospects based on performance and contract status.

Cozart - earlier in the season, maybe a contender takes a flier that he is changed after a good half season before injury in 2015 and a very good start to 2016. By now, he has confirmed that the back of his baseball card is accurate and don't suspect he'd garner much more than some mid-level prospects. Still may be worth doing, but it won't yield anything stunning.

 

I agree that trading Cozart won't garner any "can't miss" prospects, but he's having his best season as a professional thus far.

 

.316 OBP, .267 Average, 14 HR (career high 15), 38 RBI's (already tied for 2nd best in his career) and solid defense.

 

Plus he's cheap -- $2.35 million this year. He's eligible for arbitration this offseason & is under contract until 2018.

Cozart would be a good pickup for a contender.

Why pay Frazier even the 8 million if you could turn him into a few prospects? The reality for us is, the Reds knew their reality and knew they weren't going to be good, so why waste the money on him? Plus they knew they weren't going to resign him, so the earlier they traded him, the more value her had. Sucks, but it was the right business decision.

 

Phillips just wanted an extension to his contact, Nationals wouldn't give it to him, so he declined the trade. I think Phillips played hardball with the Nationals expect them to go ahead and offer the contract extension, they didn't, so we still have him.

 

I would say Cozart & Bruce are both in similar situations as Frazier, but someone who follows contracts closer may be able to elaborate more. I just know, there is no point in keeping guys over the next year or two if we are going to suck when we could be potentially replenishing our farm system and develop guys for when the team is ready to potentially be good again (maybe 2018).

 

I get the trading of Frazier, but at the same time I don't. Wouldn't he have been a keeper for the organization?. At what point to you decide you have to sign somebody to a long(3 years or longer) contract or is everyone just on a 1-2 year lease and then traded for the next thing?

I get the trading of Frazier, but at the same time I don't. Wouldn't he have been a keeper for the organization?. At what point to you decide you have to sign somebody to a long(3 years or longer) contract or is everyone just on a 1-2 year lease and then traded for the next thing?

 

Frazier will be past his prime and on the backside of his career by the time this team is ready compete. So it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to sign him to an extended period of time and pay him a ton if they'll be bottom feeders of the division for a while.

 

Sucks in the now. But its unfortunately the move they have to make. They screwed themselves with Votto & Bailey, so we are stuck like this for now.

Frazier will be past his prime and on the backside of his career by the time this team is ready compete. So it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to sign him to an extended period of time and pay him a ton if they'll be bottom feeders of the division for a while.

 

Sucks in the now. But its unfortunately the move they have to make. They screwed themselves with Votto & Bailey, so we are stuck like this for now.

 

Yeah I know it is all in the past. Would have rather gotten rid of Cozart,Bruce and Phillips before Frazier. Frazier,Suarez and Peraza,Votto(infield)DuVal,Hamilton,Holt(prospects?)in outfield

Yeah I know it is all in the past. Would have rather gotten rid of Cozart,Bruce and Phillips before Frazier. Frazier,Suarez and Peraza,Votto(infield)DuVal,Hamilton,Holt(prospects?)in outfield

 

Frazier is a good guy and does a lot of nice things on the field. However, I can't fault the Reds for trading him. He's still hitting homers but he's batting .213 with a .305 OBP and he finished last season with a .309 OBP. He's become very much an all or nothing hitter. Not the kind of guy that you want to commit to long term at age 30.

Frazier is a good guy and does a lot of nice things on the field. However, I can't fault the Reds for trading him. He's still hitting homers but he's batting .213 with a .305 OBP and he finished last season with a .309 OBP. He's become very much an all or nothing hitter. Not the kind of guy that you want to commit to long term at age 30.

I can only imagine what everyone would be saying about him if he was still on the Reds hitting .213. WHY DIDN'T YOU TRADE THIS GUY!

Yeah I know it is all in the past. Would have rather gotten rid of Cozart,Bruce and Phillips before Frazier. Frazier,Suarez and Peraza,Votto(infield)DuVal,Hamilton,Holt(prospects?)in outfield

 

Reds biggest problem is they got "out of sync." For an upper mid-market team like the Reds to compete, they have to follow the old Marlins model. Figure out the 2-3 year window you want to try to compete in and put all the chips in the middle for those years. Win or lose, you have to do a tear down after that push and build it back up again.

 

Votto's 10 yr. deal crushes that model. There is literally NO REASON to have a $25M/yr. guy on your roster during rebuilding. Whether you win 60 or 70 doesn't matter. Unless you're planning to win 85+, you should plan to win 60. To a lesser extent, Phillips and Bailey contracts are problems as well. Take out the Homer injuries and best you could have expected him to be is a solid #2 or #3 starter in a rotation. You're paying him an average of $16.5M/yr. (backloaded) through 2019.

 

As it turns out, Bruce contract is manageable to slightly beneficial for trade purposes. Mesoraco contract cannot be fairly judged due to injury but would not have been a complete "handcuff" to tear down in the way that Votto and Bailey's are.

 

Assuming the Reds have figured it out (I am not yet convinced), they need to load up on talent peaking in the 2018-2020 seasons and try to unload anything not in that window. If you are almost there, you can "rent" some players in the offseason or at the trading deadline to try to push you over the top. Some of the Top 30 salaries analyzed based on this logic:

 

WON'T HELP / HURTS, SO GET RID OF / ALLOW TO LEAVE EVEN AT HUGE DISCOUNT

Votto (assume Reds would pay $7M to avoid paying $20M in 2024 and end contract after 2023; FA in 2024)

Bailey (assume Reds would pay $5M to avoid paying $25M in 2020 and end contract after 2019; FA in 2020)

Phillips (contract ends 2017; FA in 2018)

Bruce (contract ends 2017; FA in 2018)

Mesoraco (FA in 2019)

Cozart (FA in 2018)

 

UNSURE (KEEP AROUND UNLESS THEY ARE BLOCKING A BETTER OPTION)

Straily (FA in 2021) (27 now)

Holt (FA in 2022) (27 now)

 

CAN HELP SO CULTIVATE TO SEE IF THEY DEVELOP

Hamilton (FA in 2020)

Suarez (FA in 2021)

DeSclafani (FA in 2021)

Cingrani (FA in 2020)

Barnhart (FA in 2021)

Lorenzen (FA in 2022)

Finnegan (FA in 2022)

Duvall (FA in 2022) (27 now)

Lamb (FA in 2022)

Y. Rodriguez (FA in 2021)

Peraza (FA in 2022)

Cody Reed (FA in ?2023?)