No parent is perfect. Every parent out there has done (or something they didn't do), said (or something they didn't say) something good they regret. Many decisions have to be made in the moment, and I don't care who you are, you aren't going to get every one of them right. And hindsight is always going to 20/20, and there will always be someone there to point out how wrong you were. There are great parents with awful kids and awful parents with great kids. Short of abuse/extreme negligence I'm not going to rag on a parent. Lord knows I've made more than a few parenting errors, and I haven't needed anyone to point out when I made them.

Kinda kills the theory they are just accidents doesnt it?

 

That's why I said "by definition." If we take our eye off of our child for the one moment we shouldn't and something bad happens then "by definition" we were negligent. But...that doesn't mean it was gross negligence or that the parents are bad.

I'm not sure how you taking your kid to the zoo and me taking your kid to the zoo could be that different in terms of "real world." You'd have to explain that to me.

 

I'd guess that with me, your kid would try things that they know they can't get away with when Dad is there, so I'd argue it would be tougher for me.

 

You and one child at the zoo when you are getting paid to watch the child is not the same as me with multiple children and a spouse being at the zoo. It's just not. Ideally, the parent never takes her eyes off of the child but there are so many other factors that go into it INCLUDING neglect.

 

My point to you and UKMF is NOT that your opinion is invalid. Opinions are opinions and can only be based upon either life experience (you have none as a parent), anecdotes (you once babysat a child), or speculation(what you HOPE/THINK you would do as a parent).

 

Us parents are saying that your opinion is not FULLY formed nor based on real world.

 

Who can argue that? It's like my police example. I've never been an officer yet I bloviate on here about what an officer should do DESPITE me being an arm-chair officer. Sometimes I am right because it's so obvious. Other times it's pure guessing.

 

If a parent puts their child on the ledge for a picture and the child falls into the gorilla pit then we can ALL agree that was stupid and bad parenting. If a child falls because the parent turned their head for a moment or two then you get into "well I have no idea what real world is but I'm going to speculate anyway" territory if you're not a parent.

 

I'm not even sure how you can debate that.

You and one child at the zoo when you are getting paid to watch the child is not the same as me with multiple children and a spouse being at the zoo. It's just not. Ideally, the parent never takes her eyes off of the child but there are so many other factors that go into it INCLUDING neglect.

 

My point to you and UKMF is NOT that your opinion is invalid. Opinions are opinions and can only be based upon either life experience (you have none as a parent), anecdotes (you once babysat a child), or speculation(what you HOPE/THINK you would do as a parent).

 

Us parents are saying that your opinion is not FULLY formed nor based on real world.

 

Who can argue that? It's like my police example. I've never been an officer yet I bloviate on here about what an officer should do DESPITE me being an arm-chair officer. Sometimes I am right because it's so obvious. Other times it's pure guessing.

 

If a parent puts their child on the ledge for a picture and the child falls into the gorilla pit then we can ALL agree that was stupid and bad parenting. If a child falls because the parent turned their head for a moment or two then you get into "well I have no idea what real world is but I'm going to speculate anyway" territory if you're not a parent.

 

I'm not even sure how you can debate that.

 

So in summary, if you didnt create a kid, you dont know crap, got it!

So in summary, if you didnt create a kid, you dont know crap, got it!

 

You put it in a lot shorter, more concise version, but yeah pretty much.

But they were negligent in a sense by ignoring the "No Swimming" signs. I blame Disney and the Zoo.

You and one child at the zoo when you are getting paid to watch the child is not the same as me with multiple children and a spouse being at the zoo. It's just not. Ideally, the parent never takes her eyes off of the child but there are so many other factors that go into it INCLUDING neglect.

 

My point to you and UKMF is NOT that your opinion is invalid. Opinions are opinions and can only be based upon either life experience (you have none as a parent), anecdotes (you once babysat a child), or speculation(what you HOPE/THINK you would do as a parent).

 

Us parents are saying that your opinion is not FULLY formed nor based on real world.

 

Who can argue that? It's like my police example. I've never been an officer yet I bloviate on here about what an officer should do DESPITE me being an arm-chair officer. Sometimes I am right because it's so obvious. Other times it's pure guessing.

 

If a parent puts their child on the ledge for a picture and the child falls into the gorilla pit then we can ALL agree that was stupid and bad parenting. If a child falls because the parent turned their head for a moment or two then you get into "well I have no idea what real world is but I'm going to speculate anyway" territory if you're not a parent.

 

I'm not even sure how you can debate that.

 

Of course one child versus multiple children is different, but that's not the example I gave. Being paid is irrelevant.

 

We CAN have life experience with caring for children without having children of our own. I've already addressed that. I'm not talking about babysitting one time, either. Our opinions may not be fully formed (in your opinion), but that doesn't mean that we can't have any "real world experience" handling children.

 

Im glad you brought up those "when it's obvious" times. Even then we get told "you don't know what you're talking about because you're not a parent." Common sense does play a role in some cases.

So in summary, if you didnt create a kid, you dont know crap, got it!

 

You guys are a bit sensitive.

 

I said you can only speculate. Who is going to argue that?

Of course one child versus multiple children is different, but that's not the example I gave. Being paid is irrelevant.

 

We CAN have life experience with caring for children without having children of our own. I've already addressed that. I'm not talking about babysitting one time, either. Our opinions may not be fully formed (in your opinion), but that doesn't mean that we can't have any "real world experience" handling children.

 

Im glad you brought up those "when it's obvious" times. Even then we get told "you don't know what you're talking about because you're not a parent." Common sense does play a role in some cases.

 

You have said nothing to discredit my belief. You gave accurate examples of how you have a taste of parenting. Cool. No argument from me. My point is not tied to one incident or example. I'm saying you cannot have a complete appreciation if you're not a 24/7 parent.

 

Again, tell me where that's wrong.

You have said nothing to discredit my belief. You gave accurate examples of how you have a taste of parenting. Cool. No argument from me. My point is not tied to one incident or example. I'm saying you cannot have a complete appreciation if you're not a 24/7 parent.

 

Again, tell me where that's wrong.

 

I agree 100% with the bolded statement. "Complete appreciation" is key in that sentence.

 

That doesn't change the fact that often parents are quick to say those of us without children can't possibly understand what it's like to be a parent at all. That simply isn't true.

I agree 100% with the bolded statement. "Complete appreciation" is key in that sentence.

 

That doesn't change the fact that often parents are quick to say those of us without children can't possibly understand what it's like to be a parent at all. That simply isn't true.

 

If you hang on to "at all" meaning ZERO chance then we agree. I think people that say that are speaking in general and saying "full appreciation."

You guys are a bit sensitive.

 

I said you can only speculate. Who is going to argue that?

 

I am that's who. You don't know our backgrounds other than we don't have kids of our own, we have all owned that fact. Did you know that I cared for my God niece for a little over 2 years while her parents were having medical issues and couldn't care for her day in and day out, but i'm not a parent so my opinions are irrelevant.

I am that's who. You don't know our backgrounds other than we don't have kids of our own, we have all owned that fact. Did you know that I cared for my God niece for a little over 2 years while her parents were having medical issues and couldn't care for her day in and day out, but i'm not a parent so my opinions are irrelevant.

 

I guess I didn't think I needed to say "in general" but I guess I did. Exceptions to every rule. God bless you for being an exception. My point still stands.

I am that's who. You don't know our backgrounds other than we don't have kids of our own, we have all owned that fact. Did you know that I cared for my God niece for a little over 2 years while her parents were having medical issues and couldn't care for her day in and day out, but i'm not a parent so my opinions are irrelevant.

 

Apparently, it doesn't count. It's not 24/7.

If you hang on to "at all" meaning ZERO chance then we agree. I think people that say that are speaking in general and saying "full appreciation."

 

I believe I have a good bit of experience taking care of children.

 

That doesn't mean I think I have a full appreciation. I know better.