Meaning what exactly?

I think my post is clear.

Meaning what exactly?

 

If you are thinking, as Farrah suggested, that I am a closet Christian, the answer is no. I am, however, simply fascinated with human behavior and the psyche of man. I am genuinely intrigued as to why otherwise rational souls think and believe such bizarre, outlandish things without even a scintilla of evidence to support their strange beliefs. You require evidence in order to believe the most mundane things in your daily lives, yet you(Christians) will cast your rational mind completely aside when it comes to matters of religion and "faith." I find it fascinating. I read all I can on the subject.

If you are thinking, as Farrah suggested, that I am a closet Christian, the answer is no. I am, however, simply fascinated with human behavior and the psyche of man. I am genuinely intrigued as to why otherwise rational souls think and believe such bizarre, outlandish things without even a scintilla of evidence to support their strange beliefs. You require evidence in order to believe the most mundane things in your daily lives, yet you(Christians) will cast your rational mind completely aside when it comes to matters of religion and "faith." I find it fascinating. I read all I can on the subject.

See, I think you've convinced yourself that you're the deep thinker, that you're so open minded and you've found your niche as a "liberal college prof" as you've announced in another thread, that your logic has to make sense. Yet you continue to hammer away at Christians and religion, perhaps from a jaded past (and I get that) yet you fail to see that you aren't buying what you're selling. Or at the very least I'm not buying what you're selling. It's always been my observation through study of the human psyche that the guilty wheel squeaks loudest. So, I'm not sold you're that hardcore non-believer that you like to hide behind the keyboard portraying. I think that deep down there are questions that you can't answer, jaded or not, because I believe you're an intelligent fellow. Some key voids you can't fill with logic or even the feign of sound logic.

 

But heck, I just read what you type and form an opinion. So, there's that.

It appears as though several of the self-professed "devout" Christians have more interest in talking about a man eating another man's penis than in the Rapture or speaking in tongues. Shame. Not really a surprise, though.

 

I believe in the Rapture.

 

My reasons are numerous. Just as numerous as the reasons I believe in God and Jesus Christ.

 

I prefer not to attempt to share with someone that only purpose for asking is to mock those same beliefs.

See, I think you've convinced yourself that you're the deep thinker, that you're so open minded and you've found your niche as a "liberal college prof" as you've announced in another thread, that your logic has to make sense. Yet you continue to hammer away at Christians and religion, perhaps from a jaded past (and I get that) yet you fail to see that you aren't buying what you're selling. Or at the very least I'm not buying what you're selling. It's always been my observation through study of the human psyche that the guilty wheel squeaks loudest. So, I'm not sold you're that hardcore non-believer that you like to hide behind the keyboard portraying. I think that deep down there are questions that you can't answer, jaded or not, because I believe you're an intelligent fellow. Some key voids you can't fill with logic or even the feign of sound logic.

 

But heck, I just read what you type and form an opinion. So, there's that.

 

 

WOW, you like psychology too ! Impressive. Anyone who says he has ALL the answers is a fool and I'm no fool. I find man-made religions offensive and unnecessary for spiritual oneness with the Universe. I think the world would be more harmonious if there was more spirituality and less religion. Please don't misunderstand, there are lots of very good, very spiritual people who are also religious. I agree that the tales that religions tell about the hereafter are very comforting and reassuring but, without any evidence whatsoever , I just can't buy the ludicrous claims that are made. I'm left to embrace the hard truth that it's just fable. Someone convince me otherwise. Like Hillary, I'm capable of evolving.

I believe in the Rapture.

 

My reasons are numerous. Just as numerous as the reasons I believe in God and Jesus Christ.

 

I prefer not to attempt to share with someone that only purpose for asking is to mock those same beliefs.

 

Not mocking you. What evidence to you have support the Rapture theory?

 

 

Even a majority of Christians refute the Rapture as false doctrine. As I'm sure you know as a good knowledge-filled Christian, the rapture wasn't heard of until 1830 when it was "invented" by John Darby, after he had heard of Margaret McDonald's vision. Darby influenced Cyrus Scofield . You may have heard of the Scofield reference Bible. He got the Rapture notion from Darby who got it from McDonald who dreamed it up. So, I hate to tell you, my man, you believe a dreamed-up idea from almost 200 years ago. Even back when I considered myself a good Christian and had read the Bible through a number of times from teenager through adulthood, I never read anything to make me believe that John Darby's invented idea was scripturally sound.

Edited December 3, 201510 yr by Science Friction

WOW, you like psychology too ! Impressive. Anyone who says he has ALL the answers is a fool and I'm no fool. I find man-made religions offensive and unnecessary for spiritual oneness with the Universe. I think the world would be more harmonious if there was more spirituality and less religion. Please don't misunderstand, there are lots of very good, very spiritual people who are also religious. I agree that the tales that religions tell about the hereafter are very comforting and reassuring but, without any evidence whatsoever , I just can't buy the ludicrous claims that are made. I'm left to embrace the hard truth that it's just fable. Someone convince me otherwise. Like Hillary, I'm capable of evolving.

So, if your logic holds, how can you be so "sold" that there's alien life like you so boldly claim? Not a remote shred of evidence, yet you believe. So, forgive me if I don't by your hypocrisy with regard to needing evidence to make a stance.

Meaning what exactly?

 

Others tend to resent your "obsession", but I get and understand your strong interest in this topic.

 

No matter how you slice it, a firm belief, a questioning belief, or a non-belief in something that none of us can really give indisputable proof of, is completely fascinating.

 

While many don't blink an eye at following their religious teachings for the entirety of their lives, which can also includes for many the obligation to also "enlighten" others with it, many resent anyone who challenges that which many have accepted for much, if not all of their lives as the truth. They're not inclined to view what you offer as being also a form of "enlightenment", but rather mockery or possibly even a threat.

 

In their eyes you are the devil's advocate, and in your eyes you are dumbfounded as to how those who once found the strength to accept the truth about Santa, or the Easter Bunny, still hold close to them beliefs with no tangible proof, that often times doesn't seem to add up to those analyzing it for the presence of logic.

 

Perhaps your motivation for frequently starting threads about topic is to challenge people to think logically, and perhaps in ways that have never occurred to them, that for you perhaps started falling into place, and coming more easily to you when you first allowed yourself to think outside of the box.

 

To you it just made perfect sense that religion didn't make any sense.

 

I also suspect that what seems obvious to you, and not so obvious to others can give you somewhat a sense of cynical superiority over many others, making it difficult for you to hold back with doses of ridicule.

 

Since I don't have answers one way or another I try at times to hold back, but do understand the urge and tendency.

 

There's probably a feeling of frustration that has you puzzled as to why others won't simply think beyond their lifetime of indoctrination. You know that you allowed yourself to, and probably wonder what's keeping others from at the least doing the same.

 

When you add ridicule within the challenge, if you truly want people to think about what you're saying, this will not be an effective approach because they'll view it as you making fun of them, and resent you for it to the point that they'll resist the basis of your challenge, while questioning your motive. You are not alone as I have battled with my approach on a number of topics, and haven't always selected perhaps the more effective avenue.

 

Spending the better part of my childhood being religiously indoctrinated, and then a huge portion of my teens and twenties reevaluating everything that I've been taught, and still do, although I've never completely acquired a solid handle on the ultimate truth, my analytical thinking started to peel away the layers of obvious man-made concepts often found in Christian, and other religion's teachings of unprovable beliefs, and the more that I examined it, the more that much, if not all of it, became obviously impossible to prove, and revealed itself to be filled with man's obvious touch of created concepts.

 

While others close to me spent much effort in my childhood indoctrinating me because they truly believed that it was necessary, afterwards, and though it wasn't an overnight process, I felt it important for the betterment of my advancement to undo from my thought processes what was obviously man-made with the hopes to gain a better less encumbered understanding from a "less is more" approach.

 

I do somehow have personal spiritual leanings, but none that I can prove, explain, or preach to others, nor could I expect anyone to rely only on my experience, and feel that if they are to arrive at anything, it will have to come from their own experiences.

 

No one in the past could ever convince me of anything solid even if they were adamant that they themselves had experienced unexplained things that made them believers. I would typically knee jerkingly try to find a logical explanation for some of their experiences rather than put much stock in what they were saying.

 

I've had my own unexplainable experiences that give me a sense of hope, peace, and wonderment that there's more to our existence that meets the eye, but even with that I can't say for sure of anything concrete to offer proof.

 

When people come at me with the typical packaged, obviously man-made religious dogma, I have the tendency to go into "face palm" or "talk to the hand" mode, because more times than not there's a hefty bit of logic that they've never considered, and with that there's really no talking to them. If they actually are the bearers of truth, which I can't say that they're not, it's not because they have the capacity to think, but they have faith in what they were taught to believe.

 

I can imagine that possibly the case with you is that since much of your childhood included a Christian upbringing that now feels to you as overkill, and perhaps abuse, that it's not at all overkill on your part in your thinking, to spend much time with a preoccupation that wants to express your resentment that you were urged at a young age to believe in what you now consider to be fantasy or nonsense, to express that you overcame it, to challenge others to also think, and to also point out that while many view religion as a seemingly good thing, you want to express what you consider to be also the obvious pitfalls of it.

 

Many think nothing of spending their whole lives preoccupied with a belief, so I don't find it terribly different, or out of place to spend a ton of time preoccupied with dispelling it. It was crammed in your face, so in essence you're cramming it back.

 

Theoretically you could arrive at what you have and not share it, and just let it be, and be happy that you "saw the light" so to speak, because in all reality whether or not it is fantasy, religion has forever been a major facet in billions of people's lives throughout the world for centuries, and no matter how convinced you are that it's ridiculous, there's very little chance that you'll ever get enough people to jump on your train to ever see it go the way of the 8-Track tape player, and ultimately you'll just be banding your head against the wall with an ever growing amount of frustration. Making it all go away is an insurmountable task for certain. It simply can't be done.

 

If it's at all a relief to you that someone here understands what you're trying to convey, I very much do, and though I see the ridicule in your approach that others don't much appreciate, I very much enjoy reading your posts, and often times am right in line with your thinking, and often times you are echoing the very same questions that I throughout my life have been tempted to ask of others.

 

If you've ever felt like you're one in a million with your thinking, I can certainly relate. At least knowing that you're not the only one can sometimes help to keep you from feeling like you might've been born on the wrong planet.

 

It's refreshing for anyone who's dug themselves out of their childhood indoctrination to be able to find others who can relate.

 

What I have just said is not going to score me many points with a lot of other folks, but that's fine because though I don't have any solid proof of the ultimate truth, I know who I am and what I believe in in my limited understanding, and am not afraid to admit it.

 

It is what it is, and I can't escape questioning. It's just not in my nature to buy everything people tell me, but I'm not willing to discard possibilities, or forget the personal experiences I've had that makes me forever wonder, and to hold out hope.

 

I might die and that will be that, or I'll die and possibly finally find out what I've always passionately wanted to know.

 

If there's nothing to it, then I won't be conscious to be disappointed, and if there is, how fantastic that will be to finally get some answers. One or the other is fine I guess.

 

If we happen to enter another dimension that has us living another life such as in the belief of reincarnation, that could be interesting, but ultimately it might just suck to start the whole mystery, wondering, questioning thing all over again.

I believe in air.

I respect the opinions of those who have given deep thought to their faith and challenged their religious convictions. But keep in mind there are also those who have challenged them and come to the realization that belief and faith is good and an important part of their life, and they are willing to accept that all knowledge is not yet revealed to us about our origins and our existence.

I believe in air.

Well there's an abundance of the hot variety in this forum.

I respect the opinions of those who have given deep thought to their faith and challenged their religious convictions. But keep in mind there are also those who have challenged them and come to the realization that belief and faith is good and an important part of their life, and they are willing to accept that all knowledge is not yet revealed to us about our origins and our existence.

 

...and faith cannot be explained by science or the study of human behavior. Faith is an anomoly to science, and because science cannot prove or disprove it then it must be accepted (by the scientific community) as a non-truth.

 

That's the cool thing about Faith in God....it can't be proven, so the mystery of God remains above the ability of Man to understand, as Man lives in this world today.

 

I'm pretty cool with believing that I'll get to see the end credits roll on this whole show in Heaven...

...and faith cannot be explained by science or the study of human behavior. Faith is an anomoly to science, and because science cannot prove or disprove it then it must be accepted (by the scientific community) as a non-truth.

 

That's the cool thing about Faith in God....it can't be proven, so the mystery of God remains above the ability of Man to understand, as Man lives in this world today.

 

I'm pretty cool with believing that I'll get to see the end credits roll on this whole show in Heaven...

 

Yes it most certainly can be, and fairly easy at that, and even by me in only a few words.

 

Religious faith is a byproduct of psychological behavioral programming and conditioning.

 

Most humans think they're above being trained like a dog, but in reality they're not. You're not as complex as you think you are.

 

Take someone who's been religiously indoctrinated their whole lives and compare them to someone who had never been exposed to this at all and you will find that there is a significant difference in their beliefs regarding this "mysterious" thing called "faith".

 

Faith might be considered to be a "mystery" to you and others, but it's not at all a mystery to those who understand human behavior and the detailed testing by science that has been performed to arrive at some very solid theories regarding it.

 

Faith is primarily a byproduct of behavioral programming.

Yes it most certainly can be, and fairly easy at that, and even by me in only a few words.

 

Religious faith is a byproduct of psychological behavioral programming and conditioning.

 

Most humans think they're above being trained like a dog, but in reality they're not. You're not as complex as you think you are.

 

Take someone who's been religiously indoctrinated their whole lives and compare them to someone who had never been exposed to this at all and you will find that there is a significant difference in their beliefs regarding this "mysterious" thing called "faith".

 

Faith might be considered to be a "mystery" to you and others, but it's not at all a mystery to those who understand human behavior and the detailed testing by science that has been performed to arrive at some very solid theories regarding it.

 

Faith is primarily a byproduct of behavioral programming.

 

Now this is funny to me! @BirdBrain - do you have any understanding of human behavior?! :lol:

 

(Forgive me; this is an inside joke)

Now this is funny to me! @BirdBrain - do you have any understanding of human behavior?! :lol:

 

(Forgive me; this is an inside joke)

 

As you probably realize, I have no point of reference to chuckle along, but since you have thoughtfully stated that it's an inside joke, I will settle with understanding that it wasn't designed for me to get, and with that, will resign from feeling a need, or desire to know.

 

I however will chuckle anyhow because the sun isn't shining today, and laughing, just like the sun, helps to lift the mood, and is one thing at least that most people can agree with. :lol: