OTB84 you make a good argument but no way listing all 4 CCH defenders and keeper will fly on here. I've counted something like 13 different defenders mentioned just on this thread, I'm sorry but there are not 13 Top NKY defenders. Someone on this thread mentioned 3 defenders from St Henry, really? St Henry has a 1.69 GPG, certainly nothing to brag about and this against decent but not great competition. Mentioned before, this thread should be titled Top 100 NKY Players (take 2)

Excellent point....

I know quoting yourself is not necessarily the right thing to do, but after 16 games CCH defense of Darpel, Thaemann in the middle / Massie, Flynn on the outside and Romes as GK have given up 7 total goals (and 3 of those came during times that they weren't in and one was a very questionable pk call.)

 

So, with a 0.4375 goals against average per game, while playing one of the toughest schedules, I resubmit them for consideration .......

 

As a defensive team they have accomplished this, but IMHO, I also throw out consideration that if they were on another team, each would be stand outs individually.

 

Scholars quote themselves all the time. Just be sure to footnote yourself as the source. Sounds like you have your PhD in futbol, OTB, but don't think I'm going to start calling you Professor! :notworthy:

 

So, given the legitimate case you made regarding the quality of play of Cov Cath defenders, is there one that you can say is better than the rest? If you were to start a team and had the first pick in a draft and you knew the players you didn't pick would all go to different teams, who would you pick?

 

I don't think I would answer that question if I were you. Too many of the players read BGP, but this is the kind of question that could help whittle down the pack of good to excellent defenders on the team.

My only comment about individual players is to apologize for a mispelling of a name in the earlier post......Theiman instead of Thaemann...... Sorry #10....

OTB, from what I have seen, I would agree that collectively they are probably the best defensive unit (back 4 + goalie).

 

For this NKY list, I do not think we can look at them as a unit though. If we did go this route, how do you then figure out who has the best midfield, who has the best forward combination, etc...

can't disagree, but for team cohesiveness, I'm holding off naming individuals....but would name all :isurrender:

And a smart man you would be.

So, with a 0.4375 goals against average per game, while playing one of the toughest schedules, I resubmit them for consideration ......

 

Is Morgan the only forward from NKY to score a legitamate goal on the CCH defense starting back line? If so I would resubmit him for the OPOY spot, among many other obvious reasons.

Is Morgan the only forward from NKY to score a legitamate goal on the CCH defense starting back line? If so I would resubmit him for the OPOY spot, among many other obvious reasons.

 

I am not understanding why you are choosing to call it a legitamate goal, have there been others that you do not see as being legitamate?

 

If I remember correctly, his goal was off a free kick. Although I believe it was a nice shot, I am not sure you can say he actually scored this against their starting back line since it was not during the normal run of play.

 

I do get your point and I also feel he is deserving of serious consideration.

I am not understanding why you are choosing to call it a legitamate goal, have there been others that you do not see as being legitamate?

 

If I remember correctly, his goal was off a free kick. Although I believe it was a nice shot, I am not sure you can say he actually scored this against their starting back line since it was not during the normal run of play.

 

I do get your point and I also feel he is deserving of serious consideration.

 

I feel like they're all legitamate goals. What I meant was that one was a " questionable pk, and 2 others were without 2 main defenders according to old time.

Yes Morgan's goal was a free kick but it was during normal play against the normal starting back like where he earned a free kick by drawling a foul against the starting back line and scored on the starting goal keeper.

The only other Northern Kentucky goals were SK and Holmes where I'm assuming that the starting defenders were not in at the time.. I could be wrong here, please correct me if so.

Thanks for clarifying your points. I am not sure about the SK or Holmes goals but I would say that your assumptions are probably right.

IMO OPOY has it wound down to 3 players. If so and I was a betting man I would put my money on one of the two seniors, history says seniors (right or wrong) get a little extra consideration from the voting members. Breaking down the stats, strength of opponents (OAS) and other side notes.

 

Day, 15 games, 12 goals/0.8, assists 9/.06, opponents OAS 7.22*

Morgan 13 games, 24 goals/1.8, assists 8/.06, opponents OAS 4.32

Snow 13 games, 20 goals/1.5, assists 11/.08, opponents OAS 5.78

* Does not factor the OH teams' strength of schedules, which would cause CCH's OAS to be even higher.

 

Addition notes

Day's largest goal total in any one game is 2 goals in two games Vs St Henry OAS 6.70 and Simon Kenton OAS 4.42. Day has played against two very weak defensive teams, Holmes and Scott and did not score in either game, these are both opponents he could have easily padded his stats. CCH beat Holmes 5-1 and beat Scott 8-1.

 

Morgan had 4 goals VS Beechwood OAS 1.81, 4 goals VS Calvary Christian OAS 0.74, and 4 goals Vs Bourbon Co OAS 1.72. Scott beat Beechwood 8-0, beat Calvary 4-0, and beat Bourbon Co 5-1. Did Morgan stay in these games when the outcomes were well decided?

 

Snow had 3 goals Vs Calvary Christian OAS 0.74 and 5 goals VS Campbell Co OAS 4.77. Copper beat Calvary 5-1 and beat Campbell Co 5-4.

 

Morgan has 12 more goals then Day, but 16 of Morgan's goals have come in 3 games and against very, very weak competition. Day had two very weak opponents that for what ever reason he not score, did not pad his stats, by his own choice, did he play very limited minutes in these two games? All factors that should be considered when voting.

IMO OPOY has it wound down to 3 players. If so and I was a betting man I would put my money on one of the two seniors, history says seniors (right or wrong) get a little extra consideration from the voting members. Breaking down the stats, strength of opponents (OAS) and other side notes.

 

Day, 15 games, 12 goals/0.8, assists 9/.06, opponents OAS 7.22*

Morgan 13 games, 24 goals/1.8, assists 8/.06, opponents OAS 4.32

Snow 13 games, 20 goals/1.5, assists 11/.08, opponents OAS 5.78

* Does not factor the OH teams' strength of schedules, which would cause CCH's OAS to be even higher.

 

Addition notes

Day's largest goal total in any one game is 2 goals in two games Vs St Henry OAS 6.70 and Simon Kenton OAS 4.42. Day has played against two very weak defensive teams, Holmes and Scott and did not score in either game, these are both opponents he could have easily padded his stats. CCH beat Holmes 5-1 and beat Scott 8-1.

 

Morgan had 4 goals VS Beechwood OAS 1.81, 4 goals VS Calvary Christian OAS 0.74, and 4 goals Vs Bourbon Co OAS 1.72. Scott beat Beechwood 8-0, beat Calvary 4-0, and beat Bourbon Co 5-1. Did Morgan stay in these games when the outcomes were well decided?

 

Snow had 3 goals Vs Calvary Christian OAS 0.74 and 5 goals VS Campbell Co OAS 4.77. Copper beat Calvary 5-1 and beat Campbell Co 5-4.

 

Morgan has 12 more goals then Day, but 16 of Morgan's goals have come in 3 games and against very, very weak competition. Day had two very weak opponents that for what ever reason he not score, did not pad his stats, by his own choice, did he play very limited minutes in these two games? All factors that should be considered when voting.

 

I have supported these three players as being the top three all season and I still stand by that. One discrepancy in your comments is where you say Morgan scored 16 goals in 3 games against weak competition quoting your own information. He scored 12 goals against what you were considering weak competition. You might also say that he scored the only goals against teams such as Highlands & Cov Cath. Also Morgan did not play every minute of those games, however Morgan is the only target forward Scott has. When you look at what each of these induvisuals has done for their own team regardless of strength of schedule ( which no player has control of )

MORGAN has had a hand in 32 of Scott's 35 goals. Having 24 goals and 8 assists.

 

DAY has had a hand in 21 goals out of 62 scored with 12 goals and 9 assists.

 

SNOW has played a role in 31 goals out of 38, having scored 20 goals and 11 assists.

 

As far as the Scott Cov Cath game, Day played a majority of the game and had plenty of opportunitys to scored but did not put the ball in the back of the net. Not taking away from how great of a player he is, but he did not purposely try not to score to pad his stats. I believe where as Morgan has played Target forward all season, Snow has played some midfield, and Day has played mostly midfield. Yes Days largest goal total in a single game is only 2, he is not the target forward for Cov Cath, does this make him more or less diserving than Morgan or Snow? I have to look at last year Morgan scored 16 goals and had 25 assists on what was arguably the best team in NKY ( making it to the state finals ) playing as a midfielder like Day is now & I would have to say he wasn't given much credit for that. This is why I tend to look at what has an indiviual player has done for his team, because it seems as if Day is getting much more credit on a quality Cov Cath team, than Morgan recieved as a junior on a quality Scott team.

 

*** Just throwing this out there, comparing the quality of last years Scott team of the quality of this years Cov Cath team, because you cannot compare the level of quality players on this years Scott team with the quality of players on this years Cav Cath team.

Wow.....all good points but had to read it slowly with my glasses to get the full understanding......

just in an outsiders opinion....

in no particular order

offensive

1. Day

2. Snow

3. Morgan

4. Wend

Defensive

5. Darple

6. Gesenhuges

7. Roe

8. Wessels

GK

9. Seay

10. Romes

 

Been reading this thread with slightly varied point of few. I go back to this list for a reason I'll point out.

 

I've observed the following teams and number of games. NOTE: Only listed teams with player being considered on this thread of late. (TOP 3-4). Other teams were observer at least once (e.g. NCC, BP, WV, Boone, SK, HC)

 

Scott 2, HHS 2 BB 1, CCH 3, STH 3, Conner 1, Cooper 2, Ryle 2

 

I think multiple interesting points are brought up for opinion on OPOY almost all of which are based stats. Although the primary consideration, I personally don't rely solely on that to form my personal opinion. There are also stats/facts being left out. For example, subtract goal count per PK scored or apply a weight to those. You could also apply weights to unassisted versus assisted goal or you could apply more stats that you see the professionals applying when they are evaluating talent such as # of touches per game. # of pass attempts divided by # of passes made (goes to accuracy), the list goes on (refer to internet for past EPL game reports of retired players you will get a better sense of what EPL coaches measure performance on. Additionally, those that are fully aware of the game and see it beyond stats take into account how players play off the ball (e.g. runs they make to open space for others, mins on ball defending/attempting to gain possession, many others).

 

 

The same holds true DPOY although less measurable stats are available but do exist not yet mentioned such as number of take aways, # of headers won, number of shots on goal blocked, etc) as well as with OPOY there are less measurable defensive points of evaluation such as # of times caught on wrong side of opposing player, communication with rest of back line (e.g calling out marks).

 

Now, applying both the list and the more in-depth criteria (although admittedly very subjective), I think the list above is pretty close but I would put one key twist to the whole discussion. Along with OPOY and DPOY I would add a third recognition something like OAPOY (Overall Player Of the Year). Sort of like MVP in which you take the sum total of both offensive as well as defensive criteria and applying both stats discussed and additional criteria I raised. Players that are applying skill and effort on both sides of the ball and being an impact player throughout the game and not just in one aspect of it.

 

IMHO I would have the following ranking.

 

OPYO

1) SNOW

2) MORGAN

3) WEND

4) SANDERS/LITZLER

 

DPYO

1) DARPEL

2) ROE

3) GESENHUES

 

 

GK

1) SEAN

2) BIDEL

3) ROMES

4) ESPINOZA

 

*Looked at stats but some additional criteria such as playing ball out of back with accuracy, coming offline at distance at the right time (e.g. long balls played over back line), quality of punts and goal kicks, etc.

 

 

OAPOY

1) DAY

2) SNOW

3) Probably a 3-4 way tie with some names not mentioned such #12 from WV(sorry don't recall name but very quick and although undersized plays hard on both sides of ball with skill, ROE (the other one; hustles up and down, very heady, involves others), along with some mentioned such as WESSELS.

 

Although Day has shown the skill to play offensively and has put up some numbers I just don't see him in the running for top 4-5 pure OPOY. That of course is not a slam on the kid but it's based on observing that he picks his times to take over offensively and looks to manage the game for his team. That said, seeing him play both sides of the ball from goal line to goal line, being able to take on opposing team's best defenders while also being able to equally defend the opposing teams best offensive attacker with equal quality and technique and the calmness he plays with providing his team with stability when most HS games I see (both sides of the river) are played at frenetic passes (think chickens with their heads cut off and running into walls) that are painful at times to watch, I think the level of his play across the board puts him ahead of some other very quality players.

 

The thing about opinions is that they really only matter to the ones making them.

 

All these young men mentioned as we well as the many other quality players in NKY should not mentioned should all be applauded for their efforts this year.

 

Hope to see some of them play in a few regional matches.

 

Best of luck to all the teams going into post season. I hope they finish out there last week safely and gear up for post season.