In response to post 87 & 88.... This is a good list and I feel that all 3 are deserving, if this wasn't already difficult enough, here are a few more thoughts.

 

In terms of OAS, I am not sure that the 6 out of state opponents would actually help the number that CCH has, I think it is pretty much a wash. Elder, McNick and Summit definitely would increase it; but Walnut Hills, Seven Hills and East Central all appear to be down this season and the results against these teams were pretty lopsided.

 

I agree that it is good to consider what each has done for their team and where they might be without them. As was mentioned above, they have no control over their schedule, this does not mean that you can just ignore it though, especially when one person has several goals against much weaker teams. I also don't think you can ignore the amount of time that each might be on the field in a given match or at what positions, playing strictly at target forward would give a player many more chances at scoring.

 

Just for argument's sake...

 

I believe that Morgan played both halves against Calvary, I think this match was actually scoreless at halftime. I also know that once Cooper took a 3-0 lead on Calvary, Snow did not take another shot and he did not even play half the match. Same opponent with similar stats, which can end up looking very different if you have some additional details.

 

Morgan was able to score a goal against both Highlands and CCH, I believe that Day also had a goal against Highlands and Snow had a hat trick when they played at Tower Park.

 

This is just two example's I could go on, I am sure other's could as well. I guess my point is, they are all very deserving and depending on which way you want to look at the stats, team they play on, or overall impact.... you could make a case for any of these 3 to come out on top.

 

I would add that you must also consider Litzler in this discussion? I believe that he has 16 goals and 10 assists on the season. If this ends up coming down to a decision amongst the seniors, all the more reason that he belongs in the mix.

Edited October 3, 201510 yr by Yellow Card

Stepover, Futbalfan, and Yellow Card each make good points. And my mistake on the Morgan goal count in those 3 games, not intentional. And YC makes a good argument for Litzler, so perhaps there are four in the running. Each one of them is deserving of the award, good luck to everyone.

I think when discussing OPOY and DPOY, you need to look past numbers and look at team impact. Would that team win the same number of games if that players wasn't playing on the team. That's why I think OPOY should go to either, snow, wend, or Morgan. If you taken any of them aware from their team, they would have significantly more loses.

 

I think the same applies defensively when talking about CoV Cath. If you take out one, either darpel or thaeman, but leave the other three does it change their season. In my eyes the answer is no, they will win almost the same number of games. But if you take out roe or guesenhues, both of those teams would have more significant loses with the schedules they play

Edited October 4, 201510 yr by Soccer Coach Wannabe
Spelling mistake

In response to post 87 & 88.... This is a good list and I feel that all 3 are deserving, if this wasn't already difficult enough, here are a few more thoughts.

 

In terms of OAS, I am not sure that the 6 out of state opponents would actually help the number that CCH has, I think it is pretty much a wash. Elder, McNick and Summit definitely would increase it; but Walnut Hills, Seven Hills and East Central all appear to be down this season and the results against these teams were pretty lopsided.

 

I agree that it is good to consider what each has done for their team and where they might be without them. As was mentioned above, they have no control over their schedule, this does not mean that you can just ignore it though, especially when one person has several goals against much weaker teams. I also don't think you can ignore the amount of time that each might be on the field in a given match or at what positions, playing strictly at target forward would give a player many more chances at scoring.

 

Just for argument's sake...

 

I believe that Morgan played both halves against Calvary, I think this match was actually scoreless at halftime. I also know that once Cooper took a 3-0 lead on Calvary, Snow did not take another shot and he did not even play half the match. Same opponent with similar stats, which can end up looking very different if you have some additional details.

 

Morgan was able to score a goal against both Highlands and CCH, I believe that Day also had a goal against Highlands and Snow had a hat trick when they played at Tower Park.

 

This is just two example's I could go on, I am sure other's could as well. I guess my point is, they are all very deserving and depending on which way you want to look at the stats, team they play on, or overall impact.... you could make a case for any of these 3 to come out on top.

 

I would add that you must also consider Litzler in this discussion? I believe that he has 16 goals and 10 assists on the season. If this ends up coming down to a decision amongst the seniors, all the more reason that he belongs in the mix.

 

I think the tendency is to say those teams are "down" because CCH beat them so handily early in the season when CCH was really clicking offensively but look at their records. Walnut Hills is 6-3-3 with their only other two losses to Fairfield and Anderson by 1-0 scores. Seven Hills is 6-5-1 and not a pushover by any means. East Central is 12-2-1 on the year with their other loss to LaSalle.

 

Seven Hills, East Central and Walnut Hills are better than most teams in N. Ky.

I think when discussing OPOY and DPOY, you need to look past numbers and look at team impact. Would that team win the same number of games if that players wasn't playing on the team. That's why I think OPOY should go to either, snow, wend, or Morgan. If you taken any of them aware from their team, they would have significantly more loses.

 

I think the same applies defensively when talking about CoV Cath. If you take out one, either darpel or thaeman, but leave the other three does it change their season. In my eyes the answer is no, they will win almost the same number of games. But if you take out roe or guesenhues, both of those teams would have more significant loses with the schedules they play

 

I'm not buying this argument in the HS game. If you're talking EPL, La Liga, etc. yes good argument but not in HS. Is a Messi, a Ronaldo right in winning the Ballon d'Or, yes.

This argument punishes the CCH players simply because they have good supporting teammates and rewards the Cooper, Scott, Connor, etc, players because they did not have good support around them. Does a Snow, Morgan, Wend dominate their team's scoring efforts simply because their teams have no other players capable? And how can you assume if Day, Darple, etc weren't on CCH their record would be the same? This argument significantly dispels the worth of a Day, Darple, Litzler, Wessles, etc.

 

If voting was based on this argument the OPOY, DPOY would go the players on the mediocre teams almost every year and the players on the top 2-3 teams would almost never get consideration, makes zero sense.

 

And one more time, IMO strength of competition should never be over looked when voting. Over the entire length of the season this has a huge impact on the final stats. For more proof check out the top goal scores and assists leaders in KY. The leaders teams' in both categories play pretty weak (OAS) competition. Goals scored leaders, Wilson with Franklin Simpson/4.24, Minnis with John Hardin/3.93, Hilliard with Fern Creek/2.0. Assists leaders, Teasly with Fern Creek/2.0, Linscott with John Hardin/3.93, Noe with Hopksinville/2.07. Will any of these players win MR KY Soccer, likely not.

 

Another example of how strength of competition has a baring on player performance. Why do professional players that are no longer good enough to play in the EPL, Li Liga, Serie A, your Robbie Keane, Kaka, David Villa, etc. dominate the MLS, 100% because of the level of competition. Level of competition/speed of play has a huge baring on player performance in EVERY sport at EVERY level.

I saw this on another post and for what it's worth I agree.

Some teams can't get the better competition to schedule them. So they schedule who they can, a smart coach only allows his snow, Morgan or wend to score when needed.

For instance, I read that snow had 5 goals against Campbell in a 5-4 game so my thinking is that all 5 goals were needed then I read that Morgan had 4 against beechwood in an 8-0 pounding, not all 4 goals were needed, then you have Day and litzler who are consistently putting up average #s against better teams. The goals they score are needed as well. Here's my issue, because they have a better supporting cast doesn't make them less talented or deserving but I don't think they have to work as hard to get the ball. I'm in no way taking anything from them, this could go on forever. The dilemma is if you put snow, Morgan or wend on cov cath team do they score more than Day or Litzler

We will never know

Also you have the issue of the coaches that vote for these player not seeing the cov cath kids because they are off playing better competition, ie... Cincinnati, Lexington and Louisville teams. How can a coach compare them if they've never played them? So what I'm trying to say is that while every kid that's been talked about is deserving, we will never know how or why the coaches vote for whomever they choose. When I played I'd have been over joyed just to have been mentioned in the same paragraph as these talented kids.

So who ever is picked congrats, as for the rest, let it be known that any coach would be more than happy to see you show up on July 15th.

Maybe someone can help me out with this.. on 9/22 Scott lost to Brossart 2-1 (PKs). I'm pretty sure the game was tied at 1-1 and then settled in PKs. Stats recorded/reported by Scott show 2 goals for Hegarty and 1 goal for Morgan?

This match was tied 1-1 and decided in PK's.

 

I believe Hegerty had the goal for Scott, it was the one worthy of "goal of the year".

Thing that is disappointing about the entire situation is that you never will know how some kids would have done had they played on a different team. I believe earlier in the forum someone said something about Leffler or Martin; I'll use them as an example. Their current strength of schedule is at -1.30 (correct me if I'm wrong), the kids have no control over who they schedule which is unfortunate. Had WV's coach scheduled tougher competition would they still be putting up the stats they have? You have to wonder how Leffler (24 goals/14 assists) or Martin (10 goals/14 assists) would do on a team like cov cath or even highlands. Don't get me wrong, this could and probably would make their stats less appealing, but at the same time you wonder how much of a difference a player like this would make on a bigger well known team; rather than on a smaller less known team. Would they get more recognition had they been on a team like that?

I think the best way to do it is look at number of goals assists a player has compared to total number of goals scored on a team. This shows how big of a role the player plays on the team. Just IMHO it's the most fair way to do it

I think the best way to do it is look at number of goals assists a player has compared to total number of goals scored on a team. This shows how big of a role the player plays on the team. Just IMHO it's the most fair way to do it

 

 

**when deciding offensive player of the year

Thing that is disappointing about the entire situation is that you never will know how some kids would have done had they played on a different team. I believe earlier in the forum someone said something about Leffler or Martin; I'll use them as an example. Their current strength of schedule is at -1.30 (correct me if I'm wrong), the kids have no control over who they schedule which is unfortunate. Had WV's coach scheduled tougher competition would they still be putting up the stats they have? You have to wonder how Leffler (24 goals/14 assists) or Martin (10 goals/14 assists) would do on a team like cov cath or even highlands. Don't get me wrong, this could and probably would make their stats less appealing, but at the same time you wonder how much of a difference a player like this would make on a bigger well known team; rather than on a smaller less known team. Would they get more recognition had they been on a team like that?

 

I agree kids have no control over a SCHOOL's schedule, but kids can decide to attend a different school which then they have more control of the strength of opponents (based on schedule history of that school) they will play against. Many kids over the years have chosen to attend a school, based in part to play against tougher competition, to play with better teammates, have a better chance of winning their regional tournament, etc. Kids have also chosen, based in part to play for a school because they may not perceive themselves of getting much playing time or even making the roster at another school, so it works both ways.

 

A closer look at WV schedule may answer your questions and WV's OAS of -1.3 says a ton about the low level of competition they face on a regular basis. And if you look at 3 of WV's better opponents, which are my no means power houses these players had no goals, no assists.

WV did not score VS Boone Co (OAS 6.4)

WV did not score VS Cooper (OAS 6.17)

WV did not score Vs Simon Kenton (OAS 4.23)

Can't look at goals and assist if the team wins 1-0 and three people score for said team

Maybe someone can help me out with this.. on 9/22 Scott lost to Brossart 2-1 (PKs). I'm pretty sure the game was tied at 1-1 and then settled in PKs. Stats recorded/reported by Scott show 2 goals for Hegarty and 1 goal for Morgan?

 

Looking at the stats reported show a single goal scored by Hegerty. Where are you seeing this?

Can't look at goals and assist if the team wins 1-0 and three people score for said team

 

Another thing the kids don't have control over. Probably gets fixed as soon as a loyal Scott gives new coach a heads up on that aspect of stats.