What are the rules for a legal layup?

[TripleSevens]

The purpose for starting this thread is NOT to bash referees. It is not to bash anyone. The purpose is simple. It is to define and understand EXACTLY what a legal layup is from start to finish.

 

There was a little discussion and comments on this, when it comes to alternative types of layups, (ie euro steps, spin moves)in another thread that was focused more on referees. Since I do not want to focus on ref's and I do want to examine the exact rules on layups, I thought I would start a new thread.

 

I'm looking for facts over opinions. If there is any referees out there, could you please educate, and more importantly could you even reference from a rule book. I would ask a ref after a game, but honestly, that is not a good time. Not only is there no opportunity, but I am willing to bet they would be a little guarded when a stranger comes up to them to ask a question. I understand that, so I have not went that route.

 

So here it is...I have always understood a legal layup to be the following. When a player picks up their dribble, the first foot to plant, after they pick up their dribble establishes or determines their pivot foot. Once that pivot foot is established, the player gets ONE step with the other foot, once that other foot is planted or established after the one step, from there they cannot take another step, and thus either have to pass or shoot.

 

I am asking...is this correct? If not, what is correct? The most specific question I have is this...Exactly when or how is the pivot foot established? Am I correct in saying the first foot planted after picking up the dribble, or is it whatever foot is planted when picking up the dribble? Do the rules for a legal layup change if it is a euro step or some type of spin move? (I did not think they would, but hey, I'm starting from scratch here)

 

This may seem trivial to some, but please appreciate that fact that I am asking to be sure I understand correctly, not attack anyone. I think it would be wise to understand all the info before stating that refs are missing calls.

 

Thanks for any input, rule book references, or detailed correct explanations.

[HoopsLady]

Just out of curiosity, is the euro move called a travel consistently in girls AAU ball as well?

[Clyde]

The purpose for starting this thread is NOT to bash referees. It is not to bash anyone. The purpose is simple. It is to define and understand EXACTLY what a legal layup is from start to finish. There was a little discussion and comments on this' date=' when it comes to alternative types of layups, (ie euro steps, spin moves)in another thread that was focused more on referees. Since I do not want to focus on ref's and I do want to examine the exact rules on layups, I thought I would start a new thread. I'm looking for facts over opinions. If there is any referees out there, could you please educate, and more importantly could you even reference from a rule book. I would ask a ref after a game, but honestly, that is not a good time. Not only is there no opportunity, but I am willing to bet they would be a little guarded when a stranger comes up to them to ask a question. I understand that, so I have not went that route. So here it is...I have always understood a legal layup to be the following. When a player picks up their dribble, the first foot to plant, after they pick up their dribble establishes or determines their pivot foot. Once that pivot foot is established, the player gets ONE step with the other foot, once that other foot is planted or established after the one step, from there they cannot take another step, and thus either have to pass or shoot. I am asking...is this correct? If not, what is correct? The most specific question I have is this...Exactly when or how is the pivot foot established? Am I correct in saying the first foot planted after picking up the dribble, or is it whatever foot is planted when picking up the dribble? Do the rules for a legal layup change if it is a euro step or some type of spin move? (I did not think they would, but hey, I'm starting from scratch here) This may seem trivial to some, but please appreciate that fact that I am asking to be sure I understand correctly, not attack anyone. I think it would be wise to understand all the info before stating that refs are missing calls. Thanks for any input, rule book references, or detailed correct explanations.[/quote']

 

Your understanding is correct. To be clear the pivot foot CAN be lifted. It just cannot come back down before the ball is released.

 

So when you hear someone yell "He lifted his pivot foot" that is legal. Otherwise all layups and jump shots would be a travel.

[TripleSevens]

Your understanding is correct. To be clear the pivot foot CAN be lifted. It just cannot come back down before the ball is released.

 

So when you hear someone yell "He lifted his pivot foot" that is legal. Otherwise all layups and jump shots would be a travel.

 

Yes, I did forget to put the specific of lifting the pivot foot in my description. I had left that for for assumption when I said the options of pass or shoot and assumptions is not what I want. Thanks for the detail.

 

Is the (2nd) foot that plants after the one step from the original pivot foot also considered a pivot foot? If I understand you correctly, you reference that foot as a "pivot foot" above.

[TripleSevens]

Just out of curiosity, is the euro move called a travel consistently in girls AAU ball as well?

 

No, in AAU it is consistently allowed or not called as a walk. When I say AAU, I refer to tournaments such as Run for the Roses, Battle in the Boro, NIKE tournament in Cincinnati etc., not sports of all sorts or other weekly leagues that use AAU rules.

 

This is one of the reasons why I started this thread. Certainly AAU and KHSAA do not use different rules for the lay up, but there is two very noticeable differences in the way it is called, mostly when the lay up is not "traditional".

 

I don't want to get the thread off base. I am sure there are several reasons why the two are called so different, but I am not looking to discuss that.

 

It is confusing/frustrating to see the same rules allow such different results. But again, I just want to be 100% sure of the specifics of the rules.

[tcjkbt]

The purpose for starting this thread is NOT to bash referees. It is not to bash anyone. The purpose is simple. It is to define and understand EXACTLY what a legal layup is from start to finish.

 

There was a little discussion and comments on this, when it comes to alternative types of layups, (ie euro steps, spin moves)in another thread that was focused more on referees. Since I do not want to focus on ref's and I do want to examine the exact rules on layups, I thought I would start a new thread.

 

I'm looking for facts over opinions. If there is any referees out there, could you please educate, and more importantly could you even reference from a rule book. I would ask a ref after a game, but honestly, that is not a good time. Not only is there no opportunity, but I am willing to bet they would be a little guarded when a stranger comes up to them to ask a question. I understand that, so I have not went that route.

 

So here it is...I have always understood a legal layup to be the following. When a player picks up their dribble, the first foot to plant, after they pick up their dribble establishes or determines their pivot foot. Once that pivot foot is established, the player gets ONE step with the other foot, once that other foot is planted or established after the one step, from there they cannot take another step, and thus either have to pass or shoot.

 

I am asking...is this correct? If not, what is correct? The most specific question I have is this...Exactly when or how is the pivot foot established? Am I correct in saying the first foot planted after picking up the dribble, or is it whatever foot is planted when picking up the dribble? Do the rules for a legal layup change if it is a euro step or some type of spin move? (I did not think they would, but hey, I'm starting from scratch here)

 

This may seem trivial to some, but please appreciate that fact that I am asking to be sure I understand correctly, not attack anyone. I think it would be wise to understand all the info before stating that refs are missing calls.

 

Thanks for any input, rule book references, or detailed correct explanations.

That is the way I always understood the rule. You described it well.

[Clyde]

Yes' date=' I did forget to put the specific of lifting the pivot foot in my description. I had left that for for assumption when I said the options of pass or shoot and assumptions is not what I want. Thanks for the detail. Is the (2nd) foot that plants after the one step from the original pivot foot also considered a pivot foot? If I understand you correctly, you reference that foot as a "pivot foot" above.[/quote']

 

There is only one pivot.

[TripleSevens]

That is the way I always understood the rule. You described it well.

 

Thanks for the confirmation. I really thought it was correct, but I thought I was correct the other day when I argued with my wife that my keys were not in my truck...they were. It never hurts to be sure.

 

The one specific that I felt the most unsure of is when or how is the original/first pivot foot established. Is it whatever foot is on the ground when the dribble is picked up OR is the first foot plant AFTER the dribble is picked up?

 

 

I thought it was the later of the two and thus why I described it that way in the starting post/question.

 

Can you or anyone confirm that specific part of my description?

 

I know it may seem like splitting hairs, but in my opinion, that one detail will greatly help determine what is a walk and what is not.

[TripleSevens]

There is only one pivot.

 

Okay. I get that. So which one is the pivot....

 

Is the pivot the first planted foot after picking up the dribble and before the one allowed step?

 

Or is the pivot the foot that plants after the one allowed step? (the one that pushes a player off the floor to go up for a lay up shot)

[Clyde]

Okay. I get that. So which one is the pivot.... Is the pivot the first planted foot after picking up the dribble and before the one allowed step? Or is the pivot the foot that plants after the one allowed step? (the one that pushes a player off the floor to go up for a lay up shot)

 

The former

[TripleSevens]

The former

 

Thanks...the pivot is the first foot planted after picking up the dribble.

[Tiger1]

Nmrn

[TripleSevens]

Thanks all for the specifics. Through some posts and some PM's I got the information I was searching for.

[kyyank]

So we all agree the jump step is a travel and we should go back to calling it that way?Good.

 

Next, when the person is on the floor with the ball, and someone jumps on him physically, it is a foul?

 

/Misses the old dayz.

[Clyde]

So we all agree the jump step is a travel and we should go back to calling it that way?Good. Next' date=' when the person is on the floor with the ball, and someone jumps on him physically, it is a foul? /Misses the old dayz.[/quote']

 

Jump stop can be legal.