I don't see a difference in the step out jumpshot which is rarely called a walk and hopping forward off one foot which is called a walk a lot on the girls side. It is the same steps except one is hopping forward and the other is hopping out. What is your opinion on these 2 moves.

 

Thanks for your response.

Do u agree with what was told to us that the no spin move or hop move that results in both feet being on the ground before the shot is a walk? I see it all the time in boys high school and men's college.

 

We were told no hop or spin move was legal if both feet are on the ground before shooting the ball after hopping or spinning because that means the pivot foot hit the ground which I agree with if the pivot foot is established when the ball hits the hand. Because kids take the ball off the bounce atleast one foot is almost always on the floor when they go into the hop or spin or step out which would result in the pivot foot hitting the floor

 

What are you referring to with the "hop move?"

I don't see a difference in the step out jumpshot which is rarely called a walk and hopping forward off one foot which is called a walk a lot on the girls side. It is the same steps except one is hopping forward and the other is hopping out. What is your opinion on these 2 moves.

 

Thanks for your response.

 

If you can find any video to show me what you're talking about it would be easier. I don't know what a stepout jumpshot is.

 

If you mean someone who catches the ball with both feet on the floor then steps back with one foot and then the other (say, trying to get outside the 3 point line) then that's a travel by rule. Has to be.

No.thats not what I'm saying

 

I will try do describe both moves the step out and the hop out. I don't know how to post video.

 

A player is on the move as they are dribbling. Let's say she steps toward the defender with the left foot, she bounces the ball just after the left foot hits the ground, the ball hits her hand as the left foot is on the ground and she is hopping out away from the defender, her right foot hits the ground, her left foot hits the ground and she shoots the ball. This is a step out jump shot She NEVER had this move called a walk.

 

The hop move or pro hop move is the same thing except she hops forward to get by the defender instead of hopping side ways to get away from the defender.

 

The steps, bouncing of the ball ,landing on the feet and shooting the ball are the same for both.

 

They said the hop forward could not be done legally because the left foot that she stepped with would be the pivot foot and when it hit the ground would result in a walk.

 

Going by what we were told the step out jump shot should also be a walk. When we replied back with this move we got no more responses from the head of the refs.

 

Sorry for the long responses. I don't know of any other way to describe it.

 

How would u say a jump stop is legal or illegal? If what we were told is true then almost nobody does the jump stop correctly and it is a walk. Almost everybody has a foot on the ground when the ball hits the hand off the bounce It's all one motion so it's hard to see the foot on the ground when the ball hits the hand but it does.

 

After watching the boys and college men games it sure looks to me as if the pivot foot is the first foot that hits the ground.

I really enjoy the discussion and I'm really into basketball especially the detail stuff. My daughter has worked with a lot of great instructors and this is the kind of stuff we talk about .

 

I hope everybody is ok with my long responses.

When I say first foot to hit the ground I mean after the hop spin or jump stop.

 

Hey Clyde I've noticed over the years you respond to these types of questions. Are u a ref?

A player is on the move as they are dribbling. Let's say she steps toward the defender with the left foot, she bounces the ball just after the left foot hits the ground, the ball hits her hand as the left foot is on the ground and she is hopping out away from the defender, her right foot hits the ground, her left foot hits the ground and she shoots the ball. This is a step out jump shot She NEVER had this move called a walk.

 

I think I understand your description. Key is when did she pick up her dribble? In this case play, it sounds like she kept moving her feet, while dribbling ??? The focus should be on when the dribble was picked up and where the feet were at that time.

 

For the previous comment on stepping back, it's a walk...and yes, it does happen more in girls games, forward or backward. I usually see it going forward and would refer to it as a "bunny hop", usually coming from a shooter who has developed bad mechanics early on in an attempt to get the ball all the way to the rim. I think a lot of the "hopping" for girls on jump shots comes from an attempt to compensate for less upper body strength.

When I say first foot to hit the ground I mean after the hop spin or jump stop.

 

Hey Clyde I've noticed over the years you respond to these types of questions. Are u a ref?

 

Used to be.

I actually read the rule last night. Obviously the pivot foot is not established when the ball hits the hand off the bounce like the head ref in our area said. This is not mentioned at all. I think he said that to justify always calling a walk if a player hops jumps or spins and ends up on 2 feet I had a friend who joined the ref association that year and they were told none of those moves were legal no matter how they were done It was supposed to be called a walk on the boys side but it was not. Sorry that's another topic

 

The reason I want to figure this out is I want my daughter to get back to using these moves again in college. I see all kinds of oppurtunities to use these moves to score or create for her teammates.

 

The rule I read said the pivot foot is established when the ball is secured and a foot hits the floor with the player coming to a stop. That foot becomes the pivot foot. If both feet hit the floor then either foot can be the pivot foot To me it sounds like it is more about when the ball is secured than when the ball is picked up

 

This would explain why a step out jump shot is not a walk. The ball is secured in the air or when the player lands.

 

The pro hop or hop off one going forward that I described above footwork wise is the same as the step out jump shot. I see this as being legal depending on when the player secures the ball. If a player cups the ball with one hand off the dribble or secures the ball against the body it would be a walk the ball was secured and the pivot foot was established. If the player takes the ball off the bounce with one hand bringing the ball to the other hand in the air then the ball is secured in the air or when the player hits the ground. The first foot that hits is the pivot foot.

 

A jump stop would be illegal if a player takes the ball off the dribble with 2 hands. The ball would be secured when both feet are on the ground thus a pivot foot is established. If the ball is taken off the bounce with one hand bringing the ball to the other hand and both hands are on the ball in the air or when the player lands then it is legal

 

Same goes for the spin moves that these players do on the move that result in both feet being on the floor. it all depends on when the ball is secured. The way the move is taught the ball would hit the other hand and be secured as the pivot foot hits the ground.

 

I had never actually read the rule but now I know why my daughters individual coaches said these were legal moves. In my opinion They were pushing the envelope teaching the kids to cup the ball with one hand off the bounce and taking the ball off the bounce with 2 hands. They mainly go by what's being called on the boys side which based on the games I have watched the refs usually let it go.

 

Now I know why the girl in the eku game had the jump stop called a walk. She took the ball off the bounce with 2 hands. The pro hop or hop off one she took the ball off the ground with one hand and secured the ball with both hands in the air. Atleast I'm going to assume this was his reasoning:)

My daughters individual coaches have taught her when she gets the ball in a tripple threat position for example step with the right foot, bounce the ball in front of the right foot, push off with the right foot, the left foot will hit the floor and then the right foot. There is a drill for teaching this and from what I have seen most of the top individual instructors teach it. She has never had this called a walk and it is the same footwork as the pro hop or hop off one. The only difference is one is stationary and the other is on the move. Once again I assume it's not a walk because the ball is secured in the air or as she lands. This is taught to get the offensive player past the defender. Is this the bunny hop that you are referring to?

I'm not sure what is right or wrong but from what I have seen the top national instructors(guys who work the five star camp and with the mcdonalds all Americans and professional players) and the instructors that my daughter has worked with over the years teach this type of footwork and all these "moves" are based on the same footwork.