See the bottom of post #23, no, Marvin doesn't deserve most of the credit for these drafts.

 

I also 100% do not know (nor think) that Mike Brown still has the final say on personnel matters.

I agree with a lot you said in post #23

 

I agree that it is more likely than not that the Bengals won't be succesful right away with a coaching change. I also agree that Marvin isn't the reason we have had such good drafts as of late, but I also would give the credit also to more scouts, although not as much as I'd like to see, it is a nice change from 20 years ago. I do still think Mike does have final say on personnel, we can differ with opinions there but unfortunately there isn't a way of knowing either way.

I can only go off of what I know as a fact up until 2009 and although some power was relinquished and handed out to others, Mike Brown in the end still believes his way is the right way and I don't ever see him giving up total control. It's kind of like Jerry Jones in Dallas. although he considers himself the GM he has behind the scenes given up some of his control when it comes to personnel mostly to his assistant and his son but in the end still has final say. Mike I don't think has as much say anymore as Jerry Jones does, but it actually was a very similar situation not too long ago.

 

Any time a team goes through a change it will take some time most of the time. Coaching change is no different and yes we fans can be upset with a new coach depending on who it is. There are no garuntee's in that sport. It just goes back to, do we want to keep spinning our wheels and not move forward or take a shot and try and move forward? 12 years is plenty of time to see what he could do as head coach, isn't it time to try and take the team to where he couldn't? What he did to change the philosphy of this team coming out of the 90's was spectacular, but I think he took them as far as he can and it's time to hand the reigns to someone else to try and get them over that hump now.

 

What he did is much appreciative, but maybe, just maybe his time is done and he took them as far as he could.

Hellbird, that is more or less what I said a page earlier in this thread. The Bengals very well might take a step or two backward with a coaching change.... But Marvin has lead this team for a quarter of it's existence in the NFL and still no playoff wins. It's time for a change. Falling back a little bit is a risk I'm willing to take as a fan.

Wasn't Bill Parcels basically that for Miami? His title isn't GM, but it is Executive Vice President of Football Operations and just like Player Development like Tobin, I would guess they probably do some very similar things.

 

A lot of coaches have transitioned in to GM type roles, but not in the scenario that some have played out on here. He is not going from being the Head Coach this year to a front office job unless he just wants out of coaching. Parcells was the coach and GM of the Jets. Had some kind of development role a few years later with the Dolphins.

A lot of coaches have transitioned in to GM type roles, but not in the scenario that some have played out on here. He is not going from being the Head Coach this year to a front office job unless he just wants out of coaching. Parcells was the coach and GM of the Jets. Had some kind of development role a few years later with the Dolphins.

True

Bengals win the division. Will beat the Browns in Cleveland and will also split with Pittsburg. 4-2 in the division. You heard it here first. Now will they win a playoff game??? That's the real question.

I think the Bengals get to ten wins. The question is if ten wins will be enough or not to get in.

 

If the Bengals can beat the saints today I think the Bengals get to 11 wins and definitely get in the playoffs.