Why thanks Diogenes :thumb:

 

So I have now solved the problem. Trinity must open up a second school that only has an enrollment of about 500 and the only sport that is offered is b-ball

 

This is an X-cellent idea! Perhaps X supporters and graduates can initiate a drive for funds to build T a second campus, leaving a T1 andT2, each with about 700 students. Maybe then X could win a few more state championships in football!

 

But seriously, what ultimately happened with the Public Schools in Jefferson County illustrates a maxim I believe in-be careful what you wish for. By the mid-1960s Jefferson County public schools were seriously overcrowded. I believe that Manual had and an enrollment of about 3000 in 1965. Contrast that with Flaget, which I believe had an enrollment at the same time of about 600. The public schools, properly, embarked upon a construction binge to rectify this problem. Time passed and the baby boom ebbed. Ultimately many public school enrollments stabilized at around 1000-1500. Meanwhile, the Catholics could not afford to build extra schools, nor did they have the heart to split existing schools in half. As a result, the big Catholic schools enrollments gradually crept upward. Now we are left with a situation where enrollments are somewhat similar, but because of the Catholics unisex concept there is a serious imbalance of numbers at individual schools. For example, X and T have about 1400 boys and this inures to the benefit of those schools. Meanwhile, Assumption and Sacred Heart have enrollments of girls much larger than their public school counterparts, enabling them to disproportionately dominate competition in female sports.

I believe that Manual had and an enrollment of about 3000 in 1965.

 

Interesting. Never heard that before. That place must've been bursting at the seams.

Interesting. Never heard that before. That place must've been bursting at the seams.

 

People were much smaller 40 years ago!

Gunner, you are still missing the jist of my argument.

 

I think CoachJ did an excellent job of stating my position on the issue. The bottom line is, success in football does not come as "easy" as success in basketball comes.

Nice question to elicit input from members:thumb:

I couldn't tell if the focus was why privates "couldn't [can't]" win in basketball, or publics allegedly "aren't" as successful in football. I don't think one is necessarily the flip side of the other (IMO). Also, perhaps there's a little apple/orange issue that could be clarified in your question.

 

You start out with the Trinity/StX statement - which seems to be about an ongoing domination over a period of years.

Then you mention the A/AA/AAA football results for this year along with the basketball results for this year.

 

A one year snap shot is tricky for analysis purposes. Also, instead of just looking at the football champion, what if we looked at all the regional champions in each class? Would that higher # offer a more representative comparison?

 

Also, what happens if we include other sports in the analysis? That could add/detract to others excellent opinions about this. Don't a few schools dominate the minor sports? That would probably help support the larger school #'s, money, facilities point I believe.

 

Others have offered several excellent opinions on this. It would take a long post to do it justice.

 

Cheers, Woody Jr

 

Now that you have analyzed the question how about taking a shot at it?:thumb:

This is an X-cellent idea! Perhaps X supporters and graduates can initiate a drive for funds to build T a second campus, leaving a T1 andT2, each with about 700 students. Maybe then X could win a few more state championships in football!

 

But seriously, what ultimately happened with the Public Schools in Jefferson County illustrates a maxim I believe in-be careful what you wish for. By the mid-1960s Jefferson County public schools were seriously overcrowded. I believe that Manual had and an enrollment of about 3000 in 1965. Contrast that with Flaget, which I believe had an enrollment at the same time of about 600. The public schools, properly, embarked upon a construction binge to rectify this problem. Time passed and the baby boom ebbed. Ultimately many public school enrollments stabilized at around 1000-1500. Meanwhile, the Catholics could not afford to build extra schools, nor did they have the heart to split existing schools in half. As a result, the big Catholic schools enrollments gradually crept upward. Now we are left with a situation where enrollments are somewhat similar, but because of the Catholics unisex concept there is a serious imbalance of numbers at individual schools. For example, X and T have about 1400 boys and this inures to the benefit of those schools. Meanwhile, Assumption and Sacred Heart have enrollments of girls much larger than their public school counterparts, enabling them to disproportionately dominate competition in female sports.

 

As far as T, X, Assumption and Sacred Heart being so large probably has more to do with the migration of the population of school age children in Louisville. T, A, and SH are all located in the area of town where school age children live. X lives off it 140 year tradition to get alumni to send the boys back to X. Just look at DeSales, Presentation, Mercy, and Holy Cross's declining enrollment is older parts of town with dwindling school age children. Holy Angels Academy left Old Louisville for the East End for that reason.

 

On the flip side, the Jeff Co. Public Schools simply have too many schools now. you only have to look west of I-65 to see the numerous half empty or less schools. However, closing schools can be political suicide due to some people not realizing that is what is best for kids overall. The amount of money the could be saved by closing some schools and reallocating it towards the surviving schools would be a great benefit for schools in Louisville.

We are not going to turn this thread into another X/T debate, if you want to discuss another topic start your own thread.

(NOT that this is necessarily THE answer...I don't claim to have that on ANY subject, but...)

 

...I'm thinking it might have MOST to do with Administrative support.

 

Like ChiefSmoke mentioned, the sport of football -- to be done FIRST-CLASS -- requires more than other sports. And not JUST in funding (though that is the BIGGEST thing it requires more). But it also relates to attention and praise to exceptional performance being allowed to be given; realization that football generally requires more equipment, space, time, off-season preparation, etc. than any other sport; etc.

 

In some places I've been, the PARADIGM seemed to be to consciously implement policies that make sure NOT to set athletes and athletics in general "up on a pedestal" out of fear that non-football players might feel treated "less important" in doing their activity (or INactivity).

 

The reason this is more of a PUBLIC school problem than private? The over-emphasis by college teacher-education programs on students' almighty "SELF-ESTEEM." Teachers are trained to believe that it is almost a mortal sin to do anything that might hurt a child's feelings (even if that child's behavior is wrong)...the belief in "equality of outcome" as well as "equality of opportunity" (as it SHOULD be)...that you as an authority figure should not be too "demanding" on kids and have too high "expectations" of them (might "stress them out" or "burn them out").

 

Private schools -- to their benefit -- just simply don't allow themselves to be as hamstrung by this over-emphasis. If a kid's a bad apple, you don't give him 80 chances to get better. He gets a warning and told if he does it again, it'll mean SERIOUS consequences (and they FOLLOW-THROUGH with them!). That trickles down to the athletics programs -- coaches put up with less bad behavior, less "me-first" attitude, less "what about MY playing time" issues -- and they get BACKED UP by their administrators where at publics, a lot of times, they don't for fear of lawsuit or upsetting the wrong "important community person."

 

Similarly, if a kid that's not in football or not in a sport at all WHINES about "how much the football team gets," the private school is less likely to bend over backwards to make sure that child (and his parents) is appeased (which usually means, something must be TAKEN AWAY from football).

 

Seems to me, that in almost ALL private schools that have football, and in the much smaller relative percentage of public schools with EXCEPTIONAL football programs , the ADMINISTRATION is willing to admit that football has different needs -- and GREATER needs than other sports and other activities AND they are willing to give football what it needs (be that funding, numbers of coaches, facilities, etc.).

 

These administrations realize the value of a GREAT football program to overall student morale at the BEGINNING of the school year (a CRUCIAL time for setting the tone with POSITIVE school spirit) as well as the FINANCIAL value of having a team that many people WANT to come pay to see. So, they wisely refuse to "cow-tow" to whiners and they give football more support because of the extraordinary nature of the NEEDS of the sport.

 

I strongly believe it's easier to have a successful program with average athletes, coaches, facilities, etc. but a SUPPORTIVE administration than to have GREAT athletes, coaches, facilities, etc. a NON-supportive administration coachesYou can have average great athletes and coaches but have a non-supportive administration. It is the NUMBER ONE thing a coach should look at in my opinion before taking any head coaching job.

 

Great post :thumb:

I think the only answer is Private Basketball teams need to work harder.

 

You are right! I can only speak for X...but Trinity is very similiar. X does not have near the same interest in basketball as football. Football is king. Players join the track and wrestling teams to get better at football. Players voluntary hit the weights all year long. X has great coaches in football including an ex-NFL Pro-bowl line-man.

 

X does not have the same fan support or interest in basketball. Need proof? ...Go check out the Boys basketball forum and see how many threads about X ot T basketball you can find. Now go to the football forum...Huge difference...huh?

 

X does need to work harder in basketball and they need more parent involvement. It's true...I've admitted it...It has nothing to do with numbers...if it did...why wouldn't we be able to pull more talented kids from our 1400?......We need to work harder in basketball and the publics need to in football...period!

TD, if you don't think the better team sometimes loses, you are mistaken. I believe CovCath was a better football team than Highlands was this past season, but Highlands beat them. It happens.

 

It was a joke...yes, it does happen....saw it first hand two years ago!

In basketball, it's not that simple locally. Trinity and St. X would probably defeat at least half of the teams in the Sweet 16. To win the eastern half of Jefferson County is a little tougher. Just think of the public outcry if Trinity and St. X start winning in this sport as well.. You think it's bad in football, just wait for the day Trinity wins their first or St. X gets another basketball title ('62 was the last I believe). The year Trinity won their only 7th region title, I do not believe there was a NCAA division one basketball player senior in the region. Male, Ballard, Fern Creek....none of them had one to my knowledge. Lofton (now playing at UT) put us out practically by himself by forcing OT and then burying the Rocks.