July 20, 201412 yr Actually, when done correctly, absentee is a solid anti-fraud way to vote. And its a valid way for all those without ID to vote. Kentucky has solid anti-fraud methods in place. Absentees show in in the rolls on election day to indicate that someone has already voted and avoid a double vote. Contract that with the woman from Ohio whose daughter voted both absentee and in person in the youtube video. Also contrast that with the Cincinnati nun who voted absentee twice -- once for herself and once for her dead friend in the convent. I do agree that expanding non-traditional voting (voting early or by mail as opposed to standing in long lines in early November) is a good thing. Which means, of course, that the Republicans oppose such. Edited July 20, 201412 yr by Twotoplace
July 20, 201412 yr Actually, when done correctly, absentee is a solid anti-fraud way to vote. And its a valid way for all those without ID to vote. Kentucky has solid anti-fraud methods in place. Absentees show in in the rolls on election day to indicate that someone has already voted and avoid a double vote. Contract that with the woman from Ohio whose daughter voted both absentee and in person in the youtube video. How is it solid? How do we knw that the person making the vote is the person who the ballot is meant for?
July 21, 201412 yr Even being a pretty staunch democrat, I don't get the issue with requiring ID's to vote. I've never met anyone in my life that hasn't had some form of ID. There are so many things you need to have an ID for, that it just seems silly that needing one to vote is such a problem. It's because it's harder to get away with voter fraud if you have to show an ID, that is why many democrats are against it. There is no other reason period.
July 21, 201412 yr Actually, when done correctly, absentee is a solid anti-fraud way to vote. And its a valid way for all those without ID to vote. Kentucky has solid anti-fraud methods in place. Absentees show in in the rolls on election day to indicate that someone has already voted and avoid a double vote. Contract that with the woman from Ohio whose daughter voted both absentee and in person in the youtube video. It is so easy to have voter fraud with absentee voting it isn't even funny.
July 21, 201412 yr Author How is it solid? How do we knw that the person making the vote is the person who the ballot is meant for? It is so easy to have voter fraud with absentee voting it isn't even funny. I can not say I know the process in detail. But my comment was based on: a) you have to request an absentee ballot and have it mailed to your house b) you do have to sign it - not at all foolproof in anyway - but I assume that misuse carry some legal penalty c) after it is returned there are methods to check its validity such as verifying against voter rolls, comparing signature of times when you voted in person. Not that these are probably done now since they do not even look at absentees unless race is close. d) its on paper, at least creating a paper trail. e) They record that you voted absentee in the roll books on election day to help avoid double voting. That seems good. To me d) is important. Pure electronic voting - especially when applied to early voting - seems scary as heck to someone who is in the IT business. If things are solely in digital format with no paper backup then the odds of fraud seem to be great. Early voting over 2 or so weeks or more using machines that are solely digital seems like fraud waiting to happen. Kentucky recently got a low rating for voter capability - mainly due to lack of early voting. I think that current system that is digital with paper backup is right way to go. Early voting where maybe it starts 2 or 3 business days ahead seems reasonable - so long as it has lots of anti-fraud measure built in. Paper logs (as done with normal voting) seem to be a key element. I will have to leave it up to those who work the system in detail to indicate if this assumption of it being good at protecting against fraud is off base - and it may be.
July 21, 201412 yr It's because it's harder to get away with voter fraud if you have to show an ID, that is why many democrats are against it. There is no other reason period. I believe I read recently that about 22 million American adults lack a photo ID -- about 1 in every 11 potential voters. Many people have no need to drive a car or get a passport.
July 21, 201412 yr It's because it's harder to get away with voter fraud if you have to show an ID, that is why many democrats are against it. There is no other reason period. Only democrats commit fraud?
July 21, 201412 yr I can not say I know the process in detail. But my comment was based on: a) you have to request an absentee ballot and have it mailed to your house b) you do have to sign it - not at all foolproof in anyway - but I assume that misuse carry some legal penalty c) after it is returned there are methods to check its validity such as verifying against voter rolls, comparing signature of times when you voted in person. Not that these are probably done now since they do not even look at absentees unless race is close. d) its on paper, at least creating a paper trail. e) They record that you voted absentee in the roll books on election day to help avoid double voting. That seems good. To me d) is important. Pure electronic voting - especially when applied to early voting - seems scary as heck to someone who is in the IT business. If things are solely in digital format with no paper backup then the odds of fraud seem to be great. Early voting over 2 or so weeks or more using machines that are solely digital seems like fraud waiting to happen. Kentucky recently got a low rating for voter capability - mainly due to lack of early voting. I think that current system that is digital with paper backup is right way to go. Early voting where maybe it starts 2 or 3 business days ahead seems reasonable - so long as it has lots of anti-fraud measure built in. Paper logs (as done with normal voting) seem to be a key element. I will have to leave it up to those who work the system in detail to indicate if this assumption of it being good at protecting against fraud is off base - and it may be. That doesn't seem "solid, anti-fraud" to me.
July 21, 201412 yr I believe I read recently that about 22 million American adults lack a photo ID -- about 1 in every 11 potential voters. Many people have no need to drive a car or get a passport. Good points. But how about requiring showing your Social Security Card? Isn't everyone given those for free?
July 21, 201412 yr Good points. But how about requiring showing your Social Security Card? Isn't everyone given those for free? The SSN card is still not suitable for primary identification as it has no photograph, no physical description and no birth date. All it does is confirm that a particular number has been issued to a particular name. Identity confusion has also occurred due to the use of local Social Security Numbers by the Federated States of Micronesia, the Republic of the Marshall Islands and the Republic of Palau, whose numbers overlap with those of residents of New Hampshire and Maine.[24] Social Security was originally a universal tax, but when Medicare was passed in 1965, objecting religious groups in existence prior to 1951 were allowed to opt out of the system.[11] Because of this, not every American is part of the Social Security program, and not everyone has a number. Social Security number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
July 21, 201412 yr No. In KY, if the polling workers recognize you, you do not have to show ID. I always have ID ready, but rarely have to produce it. Papa's star power precedes him.
July 21, 201412 yr Author I believe I read recently that about 22 million American adults lack a photo ID -- about 1 in every 11 potential voters. Many people have no need to drive a car or get a passport. At least in Kentucky this can be resolved with a $12, a birth certificate or social security card (authentic) and proof of residence. Driver License, ID Card, & General Information Identification Card (ID) An ID card must be obtained at the Circuit Court Clerk's Office in your county of residence. An ID card may be obtained for a person age 15 and over. Birth Certificate and Social Security Card (photocopies not accepted) and proof of residency are required. The cost of the ID is $12.00 and valid for four years. Child ID Card is issued to applicants under 15. Non US Citizen applying for a Kentucky Driver's License - ID Card Assuming most states have this capability it would seem the 'don't have a government issued ID' argument is a faux argument. This whole conversation caused me to look into this since it seemed this could be fixed by a non-DL ID. Well, it actually has been for some time. Basically there almost no reasonable argument for an adult to not have a government issue photo ID.
July 21, 201412 yr At least in Kentucky this can be resolved with a $12, a birth certificate or social security card (authentic) and proof of residence. Driver License, ID Card, & General Information Assuming most states have this capability it would seem the 'don't have a government issued ID' argument is a faux argument. This whole conversation caused me to look into this since it seemed this could be fixed by a non-DL ID. Well, it actually has been for some time. Basically there almost no reasonable argument for an adult to not have a government issue photo ID. Requiring photo IDs is a "solution" in search of a problem. What many people on this board don't fully comprehend is that there are big cities east of Kentucky with first-rate public transportation systems. Hence, one can survive quite nicely without owning a car.
July 21, 201412 yr At least in Kentucky this can be resolved with a $12, a birth certificate or social security card (authentic) and proof of residence. Driver License, ID Card, & General Information Assuming most states have this capability it would seem the 'don't have a government issued ID' argument is a faux argument. This whole conversation caused me to look into this since it seemed this could be fixed by a non-DL ID. Well, it actually has been for some time. Basically there almost no reasonable argument for an adult to not have a government issue photo ID. When Pennsylvania enacted its draconian photo ID law, a reporter for the Philadelphia Inquirer tracked a woman (who didn't drive) as she jumped through bureaucratic hoops to obtain a voting ID. The process took her 13 hours. No doubt the GOP in Ohio is trying to replicate same with its recently enacted voter suppression tactics.
July 21, 201412 yr Author Requiring photo IDs is a "solution" in search of a problem. What many people on this board don't fully comprehend is that there are big cities east of Kentucky with first-rate public transportation systems. Hence, one can survive quite nicely without owning a car. Yet they can get to the voting place on election (without an ID)? So its a Kentucky only issue? And in hotbed Pennsylvania: Obtaining a Photo Identification Card Similar law. It is $27.50 but that helps pay for that world class public transportation... But they still complain... Price Of Pa. Non-Driver?s ID To More Than Double In April « CBS Philly Being a citizen in a society requires some effort and at time some menial costs. If $4 to $7 a year is too much to spend to participate and getting to the county clerk office every 4 years is just too hard then maybe you should not be entitled to all the privileges of citizen. At some point the citizen has to engage society and make an effort.
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