I disagree. I thought Vick was way overrated long before his prison time. He was not very accurate at all and was a RB that threw and nothing more.

 

Maybe so, but during his 5-year peak in Atlanta he threw for better than 50 percent and around 2,400-2,500 yards a season, which combined with his running made him a darned productive player who won some games (GB on the road in the playoffs!). Better than a lot of guys can say in the NFL.

 

He had a cannon, and when he got it going he was deadly as a two-way threat who put a ridiculous amount of stress on an opposing defense. It took some quality game-planning to slow him down. Or injuries, or prison. Came back from jail and produced the best passing numbers of his career.

Maybe so, but during his 5-year peak in Atlanta he threw for better than 50 percent and around 2,400-2,500 yards a season, which combined with his running made him a darned productive player who won some games (GB on the road in the playoffs!). Better than a lot of guys can say in the NFL.

 

He had a cannon, and when he got it going he was deadly as a two-way threat who put a ridiculous amount of stress on an opposing defense. It took some quality game-planning to slow him down. Or injuries, or prison. Came back from jail and produced the best passing numbers of his career.

 

It all sounds good when you look at his stats all by themselves, but when you look at them against other QB's playing the same time the only stats that look good are his rushing stats

 

His best season was post prison with Philly. Matter of fact Vick never had a QB Rating over 81 until he got to Philly. In his first 7 seasons Vick only got above an 80 Rating twice until he got to philly. So his post prison years were his best yet in that era of 60% or higher compl% among the majority of "Good" QB's Vick only reached 60% 1 time in his entire career (62% in 2010 with Philly)

 

The only thing Vick proved is a running QB can't be successful unless you can also throw, which Vick couldn't do very well.

To give you a perspective of Vicks highest compl % season (62%) Just this last season there were 32 QB's in the NFL that had a higher compl % than Vick's highest season. (To be fair, 13 of those QB's threw less than 10 passes, yet still has almost 20 that completed over 62%)

It all sounds good when you look at his stats all by themselves, but when you look at them against other QB's playing the same time the only stats that look good are his rushing stats

 

His best season was post prison with Philly. Matter of fact Vick never had a QB Rating over 81 until he got to Philly. In his first 7 seasons Vick only got above an 80 Rating twice until he got to philly. So his post prison years were his best yet in that era of 60% or higher compl% among the majority of "Good" QB's Vick only reached 60% 1 time in his entire career (62% in 2010 with Philly)

To give you a perspective of Vicks highest compl % season (62%) Just this last season there were 32 QB's in the NFL that had a higher compl % than Vick's highest season. (To be fair, 13 of those QB's threw less than 10 passes, yet still has almost 20 that completed over 62%)

 

You can't look at Vick in a vacuum, stats-wise. The rushing is part of the total package. If he passes for 220 and runs for 80, how is that any different from Pocket Passer NFL Starter X passing for 300 with zero rushing yards?

You can't look at Vick in a vacuum, stats-wise. The rushing is part of the total package. If he passes for 220 and runs for 80, how is that any different from Pocket Passer NFL Starter X passing for 300 with zero rushing yards?

 

Easy. Vick is a QB not a RB.

Easy. Vick is a QB not a RB.

 

I don't know any RBs that can pass for 200 yards a game.

 

You must be a hardcore dog lover who's made it their quest in life to run down Vick.

I don't know any RBs that can pass for 200 yards a game.

 

You must be a hardcore dog lover who's made it their quest in life to run down Vick.

I am a dog lover, but that has nothing to do with how I feel about Vick. Vick is a great scrambling QB, but not a very good QB overall. How can you say he is great? He's only been one of the top QB's 1 year during his entire career.

 

Now that we have that cleared up, it would be one thing if Vick actually did throw for 220 yards a game (which by the way isn't anything sepcial, a lot more QB's avg for more a game) Yet the fact is Vick only avg'd 167 yards a game so that alone shoots down your argument for Vick. To give you a better perspective of Vick's passing look at this...Dalton is avg'ing over 236 yards per game in his career.

 

Again, Vick is a good scrambler, not so good passing QB. To pour salt into the Vick wound...as far as rushing goes, he only averaged 45 yards rushing per game thru his career also...not jaw dropping by no means.

 

BTW Vick only avg'd 1 TD a game thru his career passing, nothing special about that either. If he deserves to be mentioned in the HOF talk then there are a ton more QB's deserving to get in before him.

 

So Jim, to get to your original point. You couldn't be more wrong. 2 posts ago you said if he avg'd 220 yards passing and 80 yards rushing a game then how would that be different from any other qb throwing 300 yards a game? The problem Jim is this, Vick didn't come close to those numbers in the first place.

Instead Vick has averaged 167 yards passing and 45 yards rushing. So instead of what you would have liked to see him average which would of been a total of 38,400 yards in his career, he instead has only 27,136 total yards in his career a more than 10,000 yards less than what you wish his avg was.

 

Again Jim, don't let the dog thing get in the way, has nothing to do with his criminal record, it is simply the facts that he really isn't a very good QB and much less than what some want to make him out to be.

Edited July 7, 201412 yr by Hellbird

In all fairness, had the dog thing not happened, I have a hard time not thinking that Vick and McNabb wouldn't be held in similar light.

Offensively the biggest contribution Vick brought was that since he was a threat to run it opened up the running game of Warrick Dunn or whoever else the Falcons had in the backfield at the time. The Falcons were at the top of the rushing stats with Vick under center. Same way with how the Tebow led Broncos led the league in rushing.

With Vick I've always felt he wasn't given credit for how good he was but at the same time when people would defend Vick they weren't saying he was a top 5-10 QB. Does that make sense? People dog Vick like he was garbage when he wasn't. He wasn't a top 5-10 QB but he wasn't as horrible as people made him out to be.

 

I think spin said it best.

In all fairness, had the dog thing not happened, I have a hard time not thinking that Vick and McNabb wouldn't be held in similar light.

I have to disagree. McNabb was a better passer and didn't run as much at all. McNabb avg'd 20 yards a game rushing, how can anyone compare McNabb to Vick? Not even the same type of QB.

 

McNabb avg's 20 yds rushing per game. McNabb also averaged over 220 yards passing per game. McNabb and Vick are terrible comparisons. McNabb was a much better passing QB and also played in the era where DB's could actually breath on WR's and not get flagged.

 

Cunningham and Vick as I said earlier is a much better comparison. Cunningham avg'd 30 yds rushing per game which is closer to Vicks and both Cunningham and Vick have around the same career compl% which is right around 56%

I am a dog lover, but that has nothing to do with how I feel about Vick. Vick is a great scrambling QB, but not a very good QB overall. How can you say he is great? He's only been one of the top QB's 1 year during his entire career.

 

Now that we have that cleared up, it would be one thing if Vick actually did throw for 220 yards a game (which by the way isn't anything sepcial, a lot more QB's avg for more a game) Yet the fact is Vick only avg'd 167 yards a game so that alone shoots down your argument for Vick. To give you a better perspective of Vick's passing look at this...Dalton is avg'ing over 236 yards per game in his career.

 

Again, Vick is a good scrambler, not so good passing QB. To pour salt into the Vick wound...as far as rushing goes, he only averaged 45 yards rushing per game thru his career also...not jaw dropping by no means.

 

BTW Vick only avg'd 1 TD a game thru his career passing, nothing special about that either. If he deserves to be mentioned in the HOF talk then there are a ton more QB's deserving to get in before him.

 

So Jim, to get to your original point. You couldn't be more wrong. 2 posts ago you said if he avg'd 220 yards passing and 80 yards rushing a game then how would that be different from any other qb throwing 300 yards a game? The problem Jim is this, Vick didn't come close to those numbers in the first place.

Instead Vick has averaged 167 yards passing and 45 yards rushing. So instead of what you would have liked to see him average which would of been a total of 38,400 yards in his career, he instead has only 27,136 total yards in his career a more than 10,000 yards less than what you wish his avg was.

 

Again Jim, don't let the dog thing get in the way, has nothing to do with his criminal record, it is simply the facts that he really isn't a very good QB and much less than what some want to make him out to be.

 

I never once said he was great. I am just pointing out to you that he wasn't as bad as you are making him out to be, like he was on par with Akili Smith or something, and that, in fact, he was one of the most productive guys in the league for a five-year stretch (one year mostly lost to injury).

 

I don't have any "wishes" about what he is or was. Hell, I'm not even a huge fan of Vick. I'm just interested in the record about him being accurate, and the fact is people don't separate Vick's dogfighting/prison stuff away from his actual on-field performance the way, say, folks around here give Pete Rose the same consideration.

 

Because Vick is/was perceived as a "bad guy," the narrative about him as a QB has changed, and that's not fair. He caused defensive coordinators nightmares during his prime. Now, he's nothing special. That doesn't mean he wasn't once something special.

I never once said he was great. I am just pointing out to you that he wasn't as bad as you are making him out to be, like he was on par with Akili Smith or something, and that, in fact, he was one of the most productive guys in the league for a five-year stretch (one year mostly lost to injury).

 

I don't have any "wishes" about what he is or was. Hell, I'm not even a huge fan of Vick. I'm just interested in the record about him being accurate, and the fact is people don't separate Vick's dogfighting/prison stuff away from his actual on-field performance the way, say, folks around here give Pete Rose the same consideration.

 

Because Vick is/was perceived as a "bad guy," the narrative about him as a QB has changed, and that's not fair. He caused defensive coordinators nightmares during his prime. Now, he's nothing special. That doesn't mean he wasn't once something special.

And I disagree. His narrative with me never changed. I thought of him as the most overrated player regardless of position in the entire NFL long before the dog issues came to light.

 

Before he got in trouble he was avg at best but ESPN idiots talked as if he was the NFL's best player. He wasn't. He wasn't close. It is a testament to what I just said when you look at his stats before he got in trouble being actually worse than his post prison career.

 

Also he was never the most productive QB in a 5 year stretch. It's fabrications like that, that just rub me

The wrong way. When someone makes claims and fabricates stats to make their point it loses all credibility with me. Just provide facts like I do to back up my stance, don't make things up.

And I disagree. His narrative with me never changed. I thought of him as the most overrated player regardless of position in the entire NFL long before the dog issues came to light.

 

Before he got in trouble he was avg at best but ESPN idiots talked as if he was the NFL's best player. He wasn't. He wasn't close. It is a testament to what I just said when you look at his stats before he got in trouble being actually worse than his post prison career.

 

Also he was never the most productive QB in a 5 year stretch. It's fabrications like that, that just rub me

The wrong way. When someone makes claims and fabricates stats to make their point it loses all credibility with me. Just provide facts like I do to back up my stance, don't make things up.

 

1st bolded: Some did, sure. They've done it for a number of guys over the years, Tebow included. Neither I nor anyone else on this thread is claiming he was even within a sniff of the best in the game. He was an above-average guy who caused defenses fits because of his skill set, which was way different than anybody else in the league at the time. You seem to be arguing from the standpoint that everybody else believes he's an HOFer, and you're misdirected.

 

2nd bolded: I said "one of the most productive," not "THE most productive." And I will stand by my statement that he was. The Falcons tooled their team around him and became one of the best offenses in the league and an NFC contender during his peak from 2002-06. First team to ever win at Lambeau. Had to be doing something right then.

1st bolded: Some did, sure. They've done it for a number of guys over the years, Tebow included. Neither I nor anyone else on this thread is claiming he was even within a sniff of the best in the game. He was an above-average guy who caused defenses fits because of his skill set, which was way different than anybody else in the league at the time. You seem to be arguing from the standpoint that everybody else believes he's an HOFer, and you're misdirected.

 

2nd bolded: I said "one of the most productive," not "THE most productive." And I will stand by my statement that he was. The Falcons tooled their team around him and became one of the best offenses in the league and an NFC contender during his peak from 2002-06. First team to ever win at Lambeau. Had to be doing something right then.

 

Jim, I'm talking about what has not only been said in this tread but also what the thread is about. The topic and the article itself sounds too much like a Ayer who knows his days are numbered to trying to add credibility to himself.

 

Vick didn't revolutionize anything. He wasn't among the best at his position either. It's simply Vick trying to tout himself and make himself

Out to sound better than be actually was.

 

If Vick was the first running QB then he would have a credible argument. The fact is he wasn't nor was he the best rushing QB that has played.

 

There is a long list of better scrambling QB's than Vick including those who played in an era where db's could mug WR's at the snap of the ball. Just a few off the top of

My head who were way before Vick and were better QB's.

 

Fran Tarkenton

Ken Anderson

Steve Young

Randall Cunningham

And the list could go on.

Here's his regular-season numbers from 2002-06. He made the pro bowl three of five years.

 

2002

8-6-1

Pass — 231-421 (54.9), 2,936yds, 16TD, 8INT

Rush — 113-777, 6.9ypc, 51.8ypg, 8TD

 

2003

3-1

Pass — 50-100 (50), 585yds, 4TD, 3INT

Rush — 40-255, 6.4ypc, 51ypg, 1TD

 

2004

11-4

Pass — 181-321 (56.4), 2,313yds, 14TD, 12INT

Rush — 120-902, 7.5ypc, 60.1ypg, 3TD

 

2005

8-7

Pass — 214-387 (55.3), 2,412yds, 15TD, 13INT

Rush — 102-597, 5.9ypc, 39.8ypg, 6TD

 

2006

7-9

Pass — 204-388 (52.6), 2,474yds, 20TD, 13INT

Rush — 123-1,039, 8.4ypc, 64.9ypg, 2TD