Started this discussion in another thread. Figured it needed its own thread.

 

 

It's my belief that the current President gets too much blame for the state of coal jobs. He's obviously no friend of coal but even those that are considered to be friends have not helped with jobs.

 

Coal Country's Decline Has a Long History - NationalJournal.com

 

The above shows a long decline in coal jobs in KY and WV. It's actually stayed fairly steady in recent years.

 

China is the world's largest coal consumer and between their economy not growing as fast and their new desire to have somewhat cleaner air coal consumption has gone and continues to go down. That's not good for the citizens of EKY and WV.

 

Natural gas is also now making it worse. So much natural gas at cheap prices.

 

What do you do with a region whose economy is almost entirely based on coal?

I'm ignorant to the plight of coal and natural gas. I'm thinking the coal mining executives saw this coming years ago. I don't know what a local economy can do to survive in that situation.

 

The company I work for stimulates the local economy. While I won't say the local economy depends on my company I can say that the local econmoy would suffer without the presence of our company. I can't imagine what a local economy that depends on coal money would do to replace that loss.

The key is R&D in the coal arena. Natural gas prices and the conversion and consumption of natural gas, in particular in North America has reduced the interest in R&D. Coal, regardless of the media hype, is the still the most efficient fuel for power generation known to man. Popular sentiment has grown against coal and I do not believe anyone wants to speak "for" coal.

 

Kentucky has lost it's mind when it comes to keeping up in the energy generation market. If they are forced out of the coal market, ok, deal with that. But to not support the next obvious energy demand and take advantage for the people of appalachia, then shame on the KY politicians for not getting it done.

 

The Bluegrass Pipeline has met with much debate and is essentially dead right now. This would have been an obvious assist to the people of Eastern Kentucky, at least during initial construction, to gain some ground.

 

The shale fields in KY are unlimited and we don't want to go against the environmental (read current administration) to push that issue either.

 

The question is when do the politicians of KY stand up for the people of KY and demand that we take care of our own, who have given so much of their lives and land to take care of all of us for these years. I'm not talking about a handout, I'm talking about finding a way to bring better opportunities through the resources we have for the people that want them.

As I just posted in other thread. This administration has used the EPA force up the end-to-end cost of non-green energy so that the high cost green products and industries can better compete.

 

It is two prong strategy of giving public monies to the green companies to 'jump start' them. This is sort of the carrot in the carrot and the stick approach. But the EPA is definitely the stick being used to drive up the cost of traditional energy sources.

 

Political payback is not uncommon or new. The big money Green guys are definitely getting a bunch of help from this administration. The scarey part is that companies still go bankrupt and can not get off the ground even with the public money they are given and with the higher traditional energy costs. This administration has done extraordinary efforts by any measure on the carrot and stick approaches - and most of the green industry is still on the launch pad.

 

And from a consumer standpoint we are all paying higher costs and many of our neighbors are losing jobs. Some of those jobs and some of that cost would probably still be higher. But the EPA and Energy department applied a very strong hand in the marketplace trying to force things along - with few positive results for anyone. The possible exception being the big money behind the green industry.

Started this discussion in another thread. Figured it needed its own thread.

 

 

It's my belief that the current President gets too much blame for the state of coal jobs. He's obviously no friend of coal but even those that are considered to be friends have not helped with jobs.

 

Coal Country's Decline Has a Long History - NationalJournal.com

 

The above shows a long decline in coal jobs in KY and WV. It's actually stayed fairly steady in recent years.

 

China is the world's largest coal consumer and between their economy not growing as fast and their new desire to have somewhat cleaner air coal consumption has gone and continues to go down. That's not good for the citizens of EKY and WV.

 

Natural gas is also now making it worse. So much natural gas at cheap prices.

 

What do you do with a region whose economy is almost entirely based on coal?

What makes you believe that Chinese coal consumption has gone down and "continues to go down?"

What makes you believe that Chinese coal consumption has gone down and "continues to go down?"

 

I'll try to find a link but there's big a big surge in the Chinese Green movement. Mostly because during the summer months, the largest Chinese cities have become almost unlivable. That said, a "big surge" by Chinese government standards means going from nothing to "next to nothing" so it's a long ways off. I don't know that coal consumption has been part of it; it's been on the rise for years.

I'll try to find a link but there's big a big surge in the Chinese Green movement. Mostly because during the summer months, the largest Chinese cities have become almost unlivable. That said, a "big surge" by Chinese government standards means going from nothing to "next to nothing" so it's a long ways off. I don't know that coal consumption has been part of it; it's been on the rise for years.

Coal consumption has sharply increased in China for years. The rate of increase has shown signs of slowing in recent years but one would have to select a very short interval of time to show an actual decrease.

 

I do agree that with millions of its own citizens choking on the filthy air produced by Chinese utilities and factory smokestacks, there is some incentive for the Chinese to find economic alternatives to coal. Chinese coal reserves are abundant but the quality of the coal is poor compared to the world's best quality coal, which is shipped from the central Appalachian coal field.

 

We should always keep in mind the complete disregard for the health and safety of citizens that oppressive regimes like those of the USSR, PRC, eastern European dictatorships, etc. Socialist dictatorships are responsible for more pollution than any governments in the history of the world. Let's hope that China does clean up its act but history suggests that any environmental clean-up will be limited and just for show.

The key is R&D in the coal arena. Natural gas prices and the conversion and consumption of natural gas, in particular in North America has reduced the interest in R&D. Coal, regardless of the media hype, is the still the most efficient fuel for power generation known to man. Popular sentiment has grown against coal and I do not believe anyone wants to speak "for" coal.

 

Kentucky has lost it's mind when it comes to keeping up in the energy generation market. If they are forced out of the coal market, ok, deal with that. But to not support the next obvious energy demand and take advantage for the people of appalachia, then shame on the KY politicians for not getting it done.

 

The Bluegrass Pipeline has met with much debate and is essentially dead right now. This would have been an obvious assist to the people of Eastern Kentucky, at least during initial construction, to gain some ground.

 

The shale fields in KY are unlimited and we don't want to go against the environmental (read current administration) to push that issue either.

 

The question is when do the politicians of KY stand up for the people of KY and demand that we take care of our own, who have given so much of their lives and land to take care of all of us for these years. I'm not talking about a handout, I'm talking about finding a way to bring better opportunities through the resources we have for the people that want them.

 

 

This completely answered the question I was trying to figure out how to ask. Thank you.

Coal consumption has sharply increased in China for years. The rate of increase has shown signs of slowing in recent years but one would have to select a very short interval of time to show an actual decrease.

 

I do agree that with millions of its own citizens choking on the filthy air produced by Chinese utilities and factory smokestacks, there is some incentive for the Chinese to find economic alternatives to coal. Chinese coal reserves are abundant but the quality of the coal is poor compared to the world's best quality coal, which is shipped from the central Appalachian coal field.

 

We should always keep in mind the complete disregard for the health and safety of citizens that oppressive regimes like those of the USSR, PRC, eastern European dictatorships, etc. Socialist dictatorships are responsible for more pollution than any governments in the history of the world. Let's hope that China does clean up its act but history suggests that any environmental clean-up will be limited and just for show.

 

Don't forget democratic India, which is also pretty shameful when it comes to their stewardship of the environment. It has less to do with political ideology than it does with emerging economies. The developed world already went through their growing pains and have cleaned up their act (pun somewhat intended).

Don't forget democratic India, which is also pretty shameful when it comes to their stewardship of the environment. It has less to do with political ideology than it does with emerging economies. The developed world already went through their growing pains and have cleaned up their act (pun somewhat intended).

I will concede that democratic nations such as the US have learned some environmental lessons the hard way. However, the callous disregard for human life that the leadership of the communist bloc of countries has shown over the past 100 years suggests that political ideology does play a part in a nation's willingness to trash the environment and place the lives of its citizens at risk.

 

Take East and West Germany, for example. After WWII, Germany's economy was decimated. After the nation was split, East Germany's environment became heavily polluted until and clean-up began only after it was merged with West Germany. In contrast, West Germany became one of the most environmentally responsible countries in the world. Political ideology matters, all else being equal.

 

You are correct about India. Poverty and corruption are behind the pollution that plagues that country. The country does not have enough energy resources to keep the lights burning full time in many areas and economic growth may never be sufficient to fund a serious clean-up.

 

If China does clean up its environment, then it will be because it unleashed the forces of capitalism to generate the wealth needed to fund the clean-up. China is walking a tightrope or allowing economic freedom while tightly restricting most of its citizens' political freedom. It remains to be seen whether they will be successful at maintaining that tricky balance.

India does not have an integrated grid. The guy with the most money can buy his own power plant, pop it up and essentially name his price. The lack of an integrated grid creates a huge issue for being able to standardize the environmental piece of power generation.

The coal business in Western KY is pretty good, whereas companies mining in Eastern Ky and West Va. are struggling. Various factors involved, but it mainly boils down to not being able to compete price-wise.

The coal business in Western KY is pretty good, whereas companies mining in Eastern Ky and West Va. are struggling. Various factors involved, but it mainly boils down to not being able to compete price-wise … because it's too cost prohibitive to get it out of the ground in the mountains.

 

Fixed that for you.

Fixed that for you.

It's tough to mine coal when your own government is at war with you - expensive too.

Fixed that for you.

 

The govt. regulations, many are ridiculous while others are reasonable, hurt mining in Eastern Ky, but the cost of getting it out of the ground, as you said, is the main problem.