October 30, 201312 yr Bad decision this year? Who should have won? Why? I figured (whether right or not) that Walker from Pittsburgh would take it home this year. Figured with the Pirates being in the playoff hunt down the stretch would give him some more visibility than in the past.
October 30, 201312 yr UK Mustang is a BP hater! He has no ground to stand on other than that. What MLB 2B do you see as better players than BP?
October 30, 201312 yr Ellis either didn't play enough or didn't play enough at 2B to be considered, IMO.
October 30, 201312 yr Question about range factor. Does it really tell us anything and should it be used to look at the best defensive player at a particular position?
October 30, 201312 yr I agree with the bolded and have been saying that all along. Your first sentence is irrelevant. I have seen very few, if any, posts stating this. Gold Glove is a popularity contest has been for some time. He is the most popular second baseman, therefore he gets the award. You are wrong on this. Nobody has said numbers tell the whole entire story yet you and others say that repeatedly. I totally agree with UKMF though that I'd rather go all math and no gut than no math and all gut. Obviously a best of both worlds approach would be best. However Dusty didn't think that way at all. Jocketty seemingly doesn't either which leads me to believe Castellini doesn't either. That's why people get frustrated. Also like UKMF said there are people on here just waiting for someone to post an important stat or metric so they can criticize it.
October 30, 201312 yr Ellis either didn't play enough or didn't play enough at 2B to be considered, IMO. I can see that, although he qualified based on the metrics to be considered, and even with missing time, lead all NL 2B in DRS (defensive runs saved).
October 30, 201312 yr You are wrong on this. Nobody has said numbers tell the whole entire story yet you and others say that repeatedly. I totally agree with UKMF though that I'd rather go all math and no gut than no math and all gut. Obviously a best of both worlds approach would be best. However Dusty didn't think that way at all. Jocketty seemingly doesn't either which leads me to believe Castellini doesn't either. That's why people get frustrated. Also like UKMF said there are people on here just waiting for someone to post an important stat or metric so they can criticize it. It works both ways. Some are waiting for people who watch a lot of baseball to post their opinion so they can throw a stat out and prove them wrong. That's what has started 100% of the discussions about teams, players, managers, GM's...etc. I know I have stated many times that it's both yet you still want to throw a stat, alone, at me to disprove every argument. This is the first I can recall of either of you stating that it takes both. Maybe I missed it, I just don't remember seeing it. Here's a question, who does do it right, in your opinion?
October 30, 201312 yr It works both ways. Some are waiting for people who watch a lot of baseball to post their opinion so they can throw a stat out and prove them wrong. That's what has started 100% of the discussions about teams, players, managers, GM's...etc. I know I have stated many times that it's both yet you still want to throw a stat, alone, at me to disprove every argument. This is the first I can recall of either of you stating that it takes both. Maybe I missed it, I just don't remember seeing it. Here's a question, who does do it right, in your opinion? Anyone that uses analytics to help them make informed decisions. I don't follow all the teams closely enough to make informed decisions on all of them. I'll tell you one that doesn't though. The Reds
October 30, 201312 yr I can see that, although he qualified based on the metrics to be considered, and even with missing time, lead all NL 2B in DRS (defensive runs saved). Right. His stats look really good. I was just shocked at the disparity in innings and attempts compared to the other second baseman being considered. While he does qualify by MLB standards I wonder if that went into the decision.
October 30, 201312 yr Right. His stats look really good. I was just shocked at the disparity in innings and attempts compared to the other second baseman being considered. While he does qualify by MLB standards I wonder if that went into the decision. No doubt, and IMO, that's a valid factor. When it boils down to it, I think would've given it to Walker.
October 30, 201312 yr Question about range factor. Does it really tell us anything and should it be used to look at the best defensive player at a particular position? I can honestly say I don't know near enough about defensive metrics to make a reasonable argument one way or the other about them.
October 30, 201312 yr Author The map they show that is used in range factor is useless. No way does it measure the velocity of the ball. Can't determine bad hop. Honest question, what is the ERA of the staff with an average 2B? Is it better with BP? How many of those balls end up in the outfield w/o him?
October 30, 201312 yr The map they show that is used in range factor is useless. No way does it measure the velocity of the ball. Can't determine bad hop. Honest question, what is the ERA of the staff with an average 2B? Is it better with BP? How many of those balls end up in the outfield w/o him? He had a whopping DRS of 1 this season. By far the lowest of any Gold Glove winner. Ellis led the NL among 2B with 12 DRS.
October 30, 201312 yr He had a whopping DRS of 1 this season. By far the lowest of any Gold Glove winner. Ellis led the NL among 2B with 12 DRS. Adam Jones was -2 in DRS.
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