Just wondering if you count yourself in that group :lol: Your position, when one steps back, makes no sense. The minimum wage is $7.25 per hour and probably going up if the communists get their way. Nothing cheap about that. So one may say that no one will work for that wage...well they will if we take them off welfare or extended unemployment. Then if the givernment payroll is reduced maybe the deficit will be reduced and taxes on the low end can be eliminated. I would rather give benefits to a low-level wage earner than someone who never was interested in working at all. I have nothing against immigrants, just illegal ones. It is extremely difficult for legitimate immigrants to be given citizenship, and maybe that is what should change.

 

Those illegal immigrants are not making minimum wage, for one thing. The whole reason they're here is that business owners can get away with paying them slave wages and keep their overhead low.

Says the guy who is completely ignoring the amount of money being spent on free health care. Your big picture is smaller than mine.....

 

Here's the thing, though: If all the illegals are gone, our health care costs will not drop. They might not go up anymore, but I'm pretty sure they won't drop. I just don't have a lot of faith in the generosity of the insurance racket.

 

And still, I would argue that a massive raise in cost of all of our food would throw us into a depression we'll never get out of. That's what would happen if all the illegals were gone, because those businesses that use their labor would suddenly have to pass along the increased cost of labor to us, the consumers.

Those illegal immigrants are not making minimum wage, for one thing. The whole reason they're here is that business owners can get away with paying them slave wages and keep their overhead low.

 

So you support blatant breaking of the law and criminal activity....

The bolded part I agree with. Obama was elected twice.

 

The popularity of "reality" TV is a more damning indictment of American society, but anyway.

 

We won't get into the whole argument of "lesser of two evils," but suffice to say I've never been happy with any of the presidential options since I've been voting.

We wouldn't need illegals in this country to supply our "cheap labor" if we could get a remarkable number of those sucking the welfare bone dry and get off their asses and work. No link, this one's all me.

the majority of Americans are idiots

 

 

 

:lol:

So you support blatant breaking of the law and criminal activity....

 

Yeah, that's a lame argument, so save it for another time, for someone who will bite. It's not an if/then proposition.

 

And besides, it's not like I support the idea of unfettered illegal immigration. I'm simply a realist who's capable of seeing the big picture, and I realize that the "solutions" provided by the anti-immigration crowd are fanciful at best.

The popularity of "reality" TV is a more damning indictment of American society, but anyway.

 

It appears I spoke to soon in the other thread, Jim. :thumb::thumb::thumb:

We wouldn't need illegals in this country to supply our "cheap labor" if we could get a remarkable number of those sucking the welfare bone dry and get off their asses and work. No link, this one's all me.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with that. However, ours is an economy built on cheap labor, and the "job creators" don't care for paying living wages.

Here's the thing, though: If all the illegals are gone, our health care costs will not drop. They might not go up anymore, but I'm pretty sure they won't drop. I just don't have a lot of faith in the generosity of the insurance racket.

 

And still, I would argue that a massive raise in cost of all of our food would throw us into a depression we'll never get out of. That's what would happen if all the illegals were gone, because those businesses that use their labor would suddenly have to pass along the increased cost of labor to us, the consumers.

 

We had this discussion at lunch. Food prices are going through the roof anyway.

 

It's not just the cost of healthcare for working American's. It's the cost of free healthcare programs that we're all paying for. The reimbursement rates from those programs are affecting everyone. There's a reason you see a bill for $40 for a roll of tape. Government programs aren't paying anything and providers are attempting to balance it out by charging a little more on the commercial side. The commercial side passes those rates on to the employer, who passes it on to the employee. We're paying for it twice.

 

Eliminate the number of people receiving free healthcare and you lower the additional cost being passed on to the insurance companies/employees.

Seems to me if we fill the jobs that those 11 million illegals have with minimum wage workers, it would:

 

A) Lower unemployment

 

2) Pour more money back into the economy as we'd have more wage-earners (i.e. more consumers)

 

&

 

D) Create more revenues for the federal government through taxation, thus improving the debt.

 

 

(That was for you mcpapa )

Seems to me if we fill the jobs that those 11 million illegals have with minimum wage workers, it would:

 

A) Lower unemployment

 

2) Pour more money back into the economy as we'd have more wage-earners (i.e. more consumers)

 

&

 

D) Create more revenues for the federal government through taxation, thus improving the debt.

 

 

(That was for you mcpapa )

 

Again, that's wildly optimistic, as many of those who run businesses dependent on immigrant labor would stop doing business rather than pay the minimum wage and other benefits.

Seems to me if we fill the jobs that those 11 million illegals have with minimum wage workers, it would:

 

A) Lower unemployment

 

2) Pour more money back into the economy as we'd have more wage-earners (i.e. more consumers)

 

&

 

D) Create more revenues for the federal government through taxation, thus improving the debt.

 

 

(That was for you mcpapa )

 

I'm a big fan of A, 2 & D. :lol::thumb:

Again, that's wildly optimistic, as many of those who run businesses dependent on immigrant labor would stop doing business rather than pay the minimum wage and other benefits.

 

You think the landscaping and construction companies that employ illegals are just going to up and quit? That's foolish nonsense. My view may be wildly optimistic, but I think it's fair to say your doom and gloom scenario is the exact opposite....Overly-pestimistic.

You think the landscaping and construction companies that employ illegals are just going to up and quit? That's foolish nonsense. My view may be wildly optimistic, but I think it's fair to say your doom and gloom scenario is the exact opposite....Overly-pestimistic.

 

They'll either quit, or your cost to get your lawn mowed will go through the roof.