Excellent post PP; you've presented some facts and some editorial to support your opinion. However, I would encourage YOU to be more open minded on this topic. Not everyone that disagrees with you is close minded or a RM hater. Quite frankly, that diminishes your argument as it comes off as sophomoric cynicism.

 

I believe RM is clearly the second best WR ever. Jerry Rice is clearly the best;

Rice Bio; 3 Super Bowl Rings, 13 Pro Bowls, 1549 receptions (445 more than Gonzalez at #2); 22,895 yards (6961 ahead of TO); 197 receiving TD's (44 more than RM at #2); 208 TD's (33 more than Emmit); known as one of the best blockers at his position all-time; in 2010, was ranked #1 on The Top 100: NFL's Greatest players

Rice's work ethic and off-season conditioning is legendary. He did more with less talent than any other player in the history of the NFL. His combine speed was only 4.71. He was considered the best 'route-runner' ever due to his dedication, work ethic, and practice time.

Moss Bio: 0 SB Rings, 7 Pro Bowls, numerous NFL records also. 14,869 yards (6th all-time); 954 receptions (10th all time); Moss has done some tremendous, yet unreported things for charity, including his own Foundation for kids. He is better known for his frequent bad attitude, lackluster performances, and bad quotes. He has experienced some off-field incidents including bumping a police woman with his car, marijuana arrests, failed drug tests in college, dating violence (battery against his girlfriend and refusing to allow her to get treatment). His on-field behavior has been even more borish;admitting to poor effort, work ethic and quitting on plays, mock-mooning the Packers fans, bashing is teammates and coaches in a Vikings presser.

Several former teammates and opponents have publicly stated a lack of respect for Moss. He was out of football for a year, because no one wanted him or felt like he had game left. I heard a few ex-NFL players question his effort in the Super Bowl. Someone on ESPN radio (didn't catch who it was, but got the impression it was an ex-player) said "if he even would've jumped or made an effort, that may have changed the outcome of the play" (paraphrased). I think Moss played like it was a ProBowl, not a Super Bowl. I think the 49ers and their QB realized that he wasn't willing to battle for it and stopped targeting him. Kaepernic avoided throwing to him on a couple crucial plays, even when he was wide open. JMHO

 

He never bumped a police woman. It was a meter maid. That is not a cop. She received a low six figure sum as a settlement.

 

He never committed battery on Rachelle Washington. There was an accident at the house where she got hurt and she got a lawyer and began to do what she could to get money off of Moss as a result. He was never charged with battery and he never paid a dime to her.

 

 

He had failed drug tests. No marijuana arrests other than the roach found in his ashtray when he bumped the meter maid. He failed a drug test for marijuana at the combine and was placed in the NFL drug testing rotation where he was tested up to 10 times in a month. After his second year in the NFL he was released from the program.

 

Even Tony Dungy defended Moss mock-mooning the Packers fans. (non issue).

 

Ex-NFL players questioned his effort in the Super Bowl? Imagine that. Probably the same guys who said Callahan threw the Super Bowl when Tampa beat Oakland. I've seen a few 49ers games this season and he was on the field the same amount of time he usually is. I have a very very very hard time believing Harbaugh would have left him in the game if he was treating it like a Pro Bowl. How in the world can you tell his effort from your living room but Jim Harbaugh and no one else from the coaching staff can see it live at the game? Moss got the same amount of targets he normally gets every game as well. 2 receptions for 41 yards is usually what he gets per game.

 

Moss reportedly left the NFL for family reasons last season. I guess you know otherwise and know for a fact that he left because no one wanted him. That's breaking news a year ago. You missed your calling.

 

You say my argument is diminished to 'sophomoric cynicism' and your argument is riddled with unfounded statements that are nothing more than your opinion.

He was unstoppable when he was with the Vikings.

I just don't think hypotheticals, 'what-ifs', or 'because' should be such a key element to your argument for Moss. The facts are Rice had a better career. He was the best in the game during most of his career (13 Pro Bowls vs 7 for Moss). Moss had some sucky QB's; however, maybe we could say Montana or Young would not have been as prolific had they not had a WR like Rice.

 

Again, considered by ex-players, coaches and reporters as the Best PLAYER Ever in 2010.

I just don't think hypotheticals, 'what-ifs', or 'because' should be such a key element to your argument for Moss. The facts are Rice had a better career. He was the best in the game during most of his career (13 Pro Bowls vs 7 for Moss). Moss had some sucky QB's; however, maybe we could say Montana or Young would not have been as prolific had they not had a WR like Rice.

 

Again, considered by ex-players, coaches and reporters as the Best PLAYER Ever in 2010.

 

 

Fair statement about Young and Montana. Moss got Daunte Culpepper a 100 million dollar contract also. How good was Culpepper without Moss? Moss went to the Raiders in 2005. See for yourself.

 

Daunte Culpepper Stats - ESPN

My source was Wikipedia, I have not embellished anything that they claim. In fact, I have shortened much of their allegations. In error, I should have stated "allegedly" prior to some points. My fault, I should've stated "a traffic control officer" instead of a police woman if you feel that swings the argument.

You shouldn't really make every discussion/debate so personal. I'm just telling you, your points are valid, we disagree, you like Moss and care to defend him. I respect that, don't go low-road every time.

My source was Wikipedia, I have not embellished anything that they claim. In fact, I have shortened much of their allegations. In error, I should have stated "allegedly" prior to some points. My fault, I should've stated "a traffic control officer" instead of a police woman if you feel that swings the argument.

You shouldn't really make every discussion/debate so personal. I'm just telling you, your points are valid, we disagree, you like Moss and care to defend him. I respect that, don't go low-road every time.

 

 

Huh? I never went low road and it isn't personal. You are the one who used the words 'sophomoric cynicism'. I haven't made one personal or low road attack to you at all. If you feel I have then I apologize. Arguments/debates lose relevance once personal attacks start.

 

I used the same Wikipedia source and got all of my detail about his personal life from there as well.

My source was Wikipedia, I have not embellished anything that they claim. In fact, I have shortened much of their allegations. In error, I should have stated "allegedly" prior to some points. My fault, I should've stated "a traffic control officer" instead of a police woman if you feel that swings the argument.

You shouldn't really make every discussion/debate so personal. I'm just telling you, your points are valid, we disagree, you like Moss and care to defend him. I respect that, don't go low-road every time.

 

I agree no one is saying he is not good, just some of us believe there is more to football and being great then the ability to sometimes catch a bad ball. But I still do not think anyone is misunderstood..........Wanting to win, and pouting when you don't is no excuse for walking off the feild or dogging a route, or not blocking....and the reason we are talking about Moss doing this is because someone asked.

He never bumped a police woman. It was a meter maid. That is not a cop. She received a low six figure sum as a settlement.

 

He never committed battery on Rachelle Washington. There was an accident at the house where she got hurt and she got a lawyer and began to do what she could to get money off of Moss as a result. He was never charged with battery and he never paid a dime to her.

 

 

He had failed drug tests. No marijuana arrests other than the roach found in his ashtray when he bumped the meter maid. He failed a drug test for marijuana at the combine and was placed in the NFL drug testing rotation where he was tested up to 10 times in a month. After his second year in the NFL he was released from the program.

 

Even Tony Dungy defended Moss mock-mooning the Packers fans. (non issue).

 

Ex-NFL players questioned his effort in the Super Bowl? Imagine that. Probably the same guys who said Callahan threw the Super Bowl when Tampa beat Oakland. I've seen a few 49ers games this season and he was on the field the same amount of time he usually is. I have a very very very hard time believing Harbaugh would have left him in the game if he was treating it like a Pro Bowl. How in the world can you tell his effort from your living room but Jim Harbaugh and no one else from the coaching staff can see it live at the game? Moss got the same amount of targets he normally gets every game as well. 2 receptions for 41 yards is usually what he gets per game.

 

Moss reportedly left the NFL for family reasons last season. I guess you know otherwise and know for a fact that he left because no one wanted him. That's breaking news a year ago. You missed your calling.

 

You say my argument is diminished to 'sophomoric cynicism' and your argument is riddled with unfounded statements that are nothing more than your opinion.

 

I think the bashing is coming from the fact that he doesn't like extending his body and arms as far as he can to get a ball when he is running an intermediate route across the middle. Otherwise, these people are questioning whether or not he will sacrifice his body to make a play, which is something I personally don't recall him doing very often throughout his career.

I think the bashing is coming from the fact that he doesn't like extending his body and arms as far as he can to get a ball when he is running an intermediate route across the middle. Otherwise, these people are questioning whether or not he will sacrifice his body to make a play, which is something I personally don't recall him doing very often throughout his career.

 

 

That makes more sense than people constantly wanting to say he takes plays off everytime he fails at pleasing them.

I agree no one is saying he is not good, just some of us believe there is more to football and being great then the ability to sometimes catch a bad ball. But I still do not think anyone is misunderstood..........Wanting to win, and pouting when you don't is no excuse for walking off the feild or dogging a route, or not blocking....and the reason we are talking about Moss doing this is because someone asked.

 

 

I can accept people at their worst during or after a loss. I've never believed in a proper way to lose. There is nothing good about failure.

I can accept people at their worst during or after a loss. I've never believed in a proper way to lose. There is nothing good about failure.

 

We have common ground on this, I agree 100%.

 

Moss is either #1 or #2 on everyone's list. I only address the non-football issues (on or off-field) relative to the discussion about him being misunderstood. He is a very conflicting personality.

I can accept people at their worst during or after a loss. I've never believed in a proper way to lose. There is nothing good about failure.

 

I can as well, I am a sore loser but there are conditions................they must sell out and leave what they have on the feild. I think that is where Randy Moss has it wrong, its not OKAY to just be good...and then be a sore loser, did you lead, did you do the little things during the week in practice, during the game, did you take criticism, did you do your all to lift yourself, your team up and still come up short, hey if so, go crazy cuss someone out storm off.....If you didn't your just soft and a crybaby!!!

We have common ground on this, I agree 100%.

 

Moss is either #1 or #2 on everyone's list. I only address the non-football issues (on or off-field) relative to the discussion about him being misunderstood. He is a very conflicting personality.[/QUOTe

 

Moss is not really on my list, due to my misunderstanding of him I suppose, and I am on record taking my sons Moss Jersey he got for Christmas and returning it, I think I got him a Tomilson Jersey instead.

Given his upper tier talent and off the field issues, who would everyone compare Moss to in the NBA or MLB?

We have common ground on this, I agree 100%.

 

Moss is either #1 or #2 on everyone's list. I only address the non-football issues (on or off-field) relative to the discussion about him being misunderstood. He is a very conflicting personality.

 

 

I can roll with that. At worst he is #2. Definitely a conflicting personality.