October 25, 201213 yr I agree, but faith also does not require that logic be completely abandoned. It requires, in the words of Scripture, that we be "sure of what we hope for & certain of what we do not see." Little boy, stop being so intellectual and let me believe!
October 25, 201213 yr IMO, another way to put it is faith is still believing despite logical thought.
October 25, 201213 yr IMO' date=' another way to put it is faith is still believing despite logical thought.[/quote'] ...and that is what I am entirely incapable of doing.
October 25, 201213 yr IMO, another way to put it is faith is still believing despite logical thought. I wouldn't go that far either. To be certain, belief in something unseen takes an act of great faith, but I don't believe that faith is entirely devoid of logic or that logical thought cannot lead to God.
October 25, 201213 yr I wouldn't go that far either. To be certain, belief in something unseen takes an act of great faith, but I don't believe that faith is entirely devoid of logic or that logical thought cannot lead to God. I agree....but in the end, it's the belief without proof that differentiates faith from proven fact. It's east to believe with proof. Harder to hold onto a belief without.
October 25, 201213 yr I agree....but in the end, it's the belief without proof that differentiates faith from proven fact. It's east to believe with proof. Harder to hold onto a belief without. I don't disagree with you but I also think -- and what I meant by my response -- is that there's a difference between saying that faith requires belief without proof or visible evidence and saying that faith is belief devoid of logic or, perhaps an even more terrifying thought, belief that defies the conclusions to which logic will inevitably lead.
October 25, 201213 yr And what I should have clarified is that the test of faith is if one can believe without logic and evidence.
October 26, 201213 yr I agree, but faith also does not require that logic be completely abandoned. It requires, in the words of Scripture, that we be "sure of what we hope for & certain of what we do not see." As the saying goes "When all else fails, read the directions."
October 26, 201213 yr I love you guys. You guys are awesome. Ditto. :thumb: You know what else I love? I love that in a thread as deep & perhaps complicated as this one, there are random Christmas Story references sprinkled in.
October 26, 201213 yr Here's the C.S. Lewis quote I was thinking of, Habib: "When we are praying the thought will often cross our minds that (if we only knew it) the event is already decided one way or the other. I believe this to be no good reason for ceasing our prayers, though the event certainly has been decided in a sense--it was decided 'before all worlds.' But one of the things that really caused it to happen may be this very prayer that we are now offering." The quote comes from his book Miracles.
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