If Unions are an Evil Empire then what are the Koch Brothers?

[PurplePride92]

The conservative brothers sent out letters to their employees threatening to lay them off if Obama is elected. For all of the union bashing that takes place on this site I don't see how this type of action by the Koch brothers can be acceptable. Seems like the same type of business practices going on here.

 

Well, except that one business has more control. I'll let you guess which one that is.

 

Koch Brothers Send Pro-Romney Mailing To 50,000 Employees, Allegedly 'Stifle Political Speech'

 

 

The Koch Brothers Sent Employees a List of People to Vote For

[mcpapa]

There are a lot of folks that would love to see us go back to the days of "captains of industry".

[2 Humped Camel]

I guess you see what a "right to work" state looks like. You have a right to work here as long as you vote for who we tell you to, but labor unions are the bad guys for wanting safe working conditions, pay and benfits commenserate to their job duties.

[UKMustangFan]

I think they're both ignorant. That work for ya PP92?

[Bluegrasscard]

Most companies have a strict 'no solicitation' policy (PP probably knows why...). Wonder if they violated their own policy?

[PurplePride92]

I think they're both ignorant. That work for ya PP92?

 

Just be fair and equal is all I ask.

[PurplePride92]

Most companies have a strict 'no solicitation' policy (PP probably knows why...). Wonder if they violated their own policy?

 

Definitely. I know there is a strict 'no solicitation' policy here. When the political folks from Steelworkers come here to pass out flyers they have to do so outside of the company grounds. They are not allowed to do so on the grounds of the plant and neither is the company.

[75center]

Most companies have a strict 'no solicitation' policy (PP probably knows why...). Wonder if they violated their own policy?

 

My guess is yes but who you going to complain to? The boss?

[jolmstead]

PPride, the sad thing is that BOTH parties are responsible for the betrayal of the American Worker. It started with NAFTA then continued with guest worker programs like H1-B and the continued treatment of border security as a law enforcement issue instead of a matter of national security. Romney right now is advertising bashing Obama on his trade policies with China, yet the folks who benefit from those policies is Romney's own constituency. But the Democrats fiercely support H1-B that lets foreign technology and heath care workers into the country to compete with our workforce when the unemployment > 10%.

 

The only answer is to start electing people who are not beholden to the lobbyist.

[marvel]

Seems like the same type of business practices going on here.

 

Then why are you defending one and not the other?

[marvel]

I guess you see what a "right to work" state looks like. You have a right to work here as long as you vote for who we tell you to, but labor unions are the bad guys for wanting safe working conditions, pay and benfits commenserate to their job duties.

 

 

Right To Work isn't against unions. It is against forcing grown adults into joining one and taking money from those individuals because they don't want to be a part of your gang.

 

A Right To Work state sees per capita disposable income $2,249 higher than KY's.

 

Average real yearly income for households in Right to Work state metro areas when cost of living was factored in was $4,200 more than non-Right to Work state metro areas.

 

When given the chance, people leave Unions. That is why unions have to use government -- have to use force to ensure membership. You cannot name one period in time where they didn't have to force members, through government, to pay and join them. If the law was not there to force membership, membership will decline.

 

What is so wrong with making it voluntary?

[PurplePride92]

Then why are you defending one and not the other?

 

Because my union and how I operate my local shouldn't be lumped into the rest who operate in a corrupt manner. Not to mention, my union isn't threatening jobs if you vote opposite of want they want. My union just wants you to vote. They call presidents meetings and lean on us to persuade the membership to vote democrat but I'm the last president they should expect to be trying to persuade any of my union members on how to vote. Not gonna happen.

 

All I am doing is keeping it fair and balanced and so far everyone who has bashed the unions for this practice is bashing the Koch brothers also. So far so good. If it isn't good for then one it shouldn't be good for the other.

 

Also, unions aren't as strong as the actual corporation anyway. The Koch brothers swing a much bigger bat than the unions do.

[PurplePride92]

Right To Work isn't against unions. It is against forcing grown adults into joining one and taking money from those individuals because they don't want to be a part of your gang.

 

A Right To Work state sees per capita disposable income $2,249 higher than KY's.

 

Average real yearly income for households in Right to Work state metro areas when cost of living was factored in was $4,200 more than non-Right to Work state metro areas.

 

When given the chance, people leave Unions. That is why unions have to use government -- have to use force to ensure membership. You cannot name one period in time where they didn't have to force members, through government, to pay and join them. If the law was not there to force membership, membership will decline.

 

What is so wrong with making it voluntary?

 

The lack of trust that unions have for corporations makes it impossible. Trust has to be earned in these big money stakes. Corporations hold all of the power. If they wanted RTW they could get it easily. Why aren't they trying harder to prove that things wouldn't change in a RTW climate? I'm open if they want to negotiate. Shoot, we're open to getting rid of a union all together here at Corning. We'll listen. Will they say the right things?

[2 Humped Camel]

Right To Work isn't against unions. It is against forcing grown adults into joining one and taking money from those individuals because they don't want to be a part of your gang.

 

A Right To Work state sees per capita disposable income $2,249 higher than KY's.

 

Average real yearly income for households in Right to Work state metro areas when cost of living was factored in was $4,200 more than non-Right to Work state metro areas.

 

When given the chance, people leave Unions. That is why unions have to use government -- have to use force to ensure membership. You cannot name one period in time where they didn't have to force members, through government, to pay and join them. If the law was not there to force membership, membership will decline.

 

What is so wrong with making it voluntary?

 

I disagree with the notion that it isn't against unions. The right to work movement is completely about busting unions and giving management more leverage with salary and benefits. I'm not sure where you got those numbers from but I don't believe they are correct. Plus we have a history in our country of people being killed for union membership and strikes so I don't get that argument either.

 

Right-to-work law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

A February 2011 Economic Policy Institute study found:[11]

 

Wages in right-to-work states are 3.2% lower than those in non-RTW states, after controlling for a full complement of individual demographic and socioeconomic variables as well as state macroeconomic indicators. Using the average wage in non-RTW states as the base ($22.11), the average full-time, full-year worker in an RTW state makes about $1,500 less annually than a similar worker in a non-RTW state.

The rate of employer-sponsored health insurance (ESI) is 2.6 percentage points lower in RTW states compared with non-RTW states, after controlling for individual, job, and state-level characteristics. If workers in non-RTW states were to receive ESI at this lower rate, 2 million fewer workers nationally would be covered.

The rate of employer-sponsored pensions is 4.8 percentage points lower in RTW states, using the full complement of control variables in [the study's] regression model. If workers in non-RTW states were to receive pensions at this lower rate, 3.8 million fewer workers nationally would have pensions.

[edit] ComparisonsThe United States Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, Occupational Employment Statistics, May 2011 Occupational Employment and Wages Estimates[26], shows median hourly wages of all 22 Right to Work States (RTW) and all 28 Collective-Bargaining States (CBS) as follows:

 

Occupation Median wages in Right-to-work states Median wages in Collective-bargaining states Difference

All occupations $15.31/hour $16.89/hour -$1.58/hour (-9.4%)

Middle school teacher $49,306/year $55,863/year -$6557/year (-11.7%)

Computer support specialist $46,306/year $50,641/year -$4335/year (-8.6%)

 

Romney‘s claim that ‘right to work’ states get more ‘good jobs’ - The Washington Post

 

The Pinocchio Test

 

Romney’s remarks appeared rooted in actual Labor Department data, even though he spouted some numbers that didn’t match his own analysis. Regardless, the former governor exaggerates the importance of these statistics, and he fails to acknowledge that factors other than labor laws play a role in determining job growth.

 

Romney earns two Pinocchios for his claim that “good jobs” and job growth result from right to work laws. His statistics are technically correct but his reasoning is too simplistic and ultimately could be misleading to ordinary people.

[All Tell]

Here's the difference. The Koch Brothers own the company, the unions don't (as much as they believe they do). If I own a building I am completely within my rights to paint anti-union rants on the walls even if my primary tenant is a union or union employer. As my friend pointed out in another thread you don't have a right to work for them. You know their political leanings, if you don't want to hear the politics they espouse then choose not to work for them. They are taking no money out of people's pockets and using it to support political views that the employees don't agree with. Unions do.