University of South Alabama Policeman Fatally Shoots Naked, Unarmed Student

[AverageJoesGym]

Article

 

An 18 year old freshman, who was naked, unarmed and high on LSD showed up at the police department on the South Alabama campus and started banging on the door. The officer who responded exited the police station with his gun drawn. The officer retreated when the student. The student continued to approach the officer for more than 50 feet. When he didn't stop the officer shot him once, fatally in the chest. A few questions here:

1. There were no other people in danger. Why did the officer leave the building to confront an obviously messed up, naked student instead of waiting for help? Backup arrived within seconds of the shooting.

2. The officer was armed with both pepper spray and a baton yet responded with his weapon drawn. I thought officers were trained to respond with a next level up type of force? It looks like it would have been obvious that a naked man was unarmed. Wouldn't the baton and pepper spray have been the next level up since the student was not armed? The student was 5'7" 140 lbs.

 

I understand what the local sheriff says about not being sure if the officer could have holstered his weapon and used his baton and pepper spray safely. However, doesn't at least part of this fall on the officer for choosing to leave the building with his gun drawn to begin with? Especially given that the student was not an immediate danger to the officer or any bystanders?

[uk#1fan]

That man should ask why he is a cop!

[uk#1fan]

I don't understand why cops always shoot to kill? I mean why can't they shoot for their legs or something?

[TAC]

Officer "stop or I will shoot you".

Kid. "im stoned, I don't think I will obey your order.

Officer " bam". Should have obeyed my order.

 

Lesson learned again. Obey an officer of the law. If not get shot or give Rodney King a call.

[halfback20]

Not saying the officer was right or wrong in this situation because I don't know. I wasn't there and I don't know the entire story.

 

Why'd he shoot? Why didn't he wait? Why didnt he use something else? Did he have to kill him?

 

I don't know. But some other important questions here that you didn't bother to mention...

 

Why was the naked teen high and ignoring a police officers demands? Doesn't some of the blame fall on the idiot who put the officer in this position?

 

As for police shooting arms/legs...

 

This ain't the movies where you can hit your target with every shot. Have you ever tried to hit an arm or leg of a moving target in an extremely high stress situation? Not going to happen.

Edited October 14, 2012 by halfback20

[AverageJoesGym]

I guess the thing that bothers me most about this situation is that it happened on campus. You would have to think that campus police would be used to dealing with impaired students. With that being the case I don't understand why the officer immediately drew his gun and stepped outside where he had to make a life or death choice. No one was in an immediate danger and backup was obviously available.

[halfback20]

I guess the thing that bothers me most about this situation is that it happened on campus. You would have to think that campus police would be used to dealing with impaired students. With that being the case I don't understand why the officer immediately drew his gun and stepped outside where he had to make a life or death choice. No one was in an immediate danger and backup was obviously available.

 

He probably stepped out with his gun because he didn't want to be ambushed empty handed. The naked guy might have had a knife for all he knew.

 

Like I said before, I'm not saying he was right or wrong. But some people need to look at it this way IMO. That kid is responsible for his actions. No one forced him to take LSD, get naked, attack two people and go to the police station banging on windows. No one forced him to disobey an armed police officer who apparently feared for his life. Some people are questioning the police officers training while at the same time making excuses that he was a college kid and well...they get high sometimes. That's BS IMO.

[The Scribe]

I don't think we have enough threads on BGP about police officers that shoot people. Maybe we can get a forum dedicated to just these threads so that people who weren't there and who don't have all the necessary information can keep questioning them.

 

Pepper spray, baton, and even tasers have minimal effects on someone hopped up on LSD. Now what?

 

If you have never encountered someone hopped up on LSD, you can question why the officer used deadly force but your reasoning is flawed.

[Habib]

I don't think we have enough threads on BGP about police officers that shoot people. Maybe we can get a forum dedicated to just these threads so that people who weren't there and who don't have all the necessary information can keep questioning them.

 

Pepper spray, baton, and even tasers have minimal effects on someone hopped up on LSD. Now what?

 

If you have never encountered someone hopped up on LSD, you can question why the officer used deadly force but your reasoning is flawed.

 

Pepper spray doesn't work on someone on LSD? Maybe they should have just played the Beatles at full volume instead. That always works.

[The Scribe]

Pepper spray isn't a cure-all. It doesn't work on all people who aren't under the influence.

 

I find it interesting the article failed to mention that the deceased assaulted two people in vehicles and attempted to bite a woman's arm before going to the police department. But then again, what good are facts when you can run the headline "Police shoot naked man"

[AverageJoesGym]

I don't think we have enough threads on BGP about police officers that shoot people. Maybe we can get a forum dedicated to just these threads so that people who weren't there and who don't have all the necessary information can keep questioning them.

 

Pepper spray, baton, and even tasers have minimal effects on someone hopped up on LSD. Now what?

 

If you have never encountered someone hopped up on LSD, you can question why the officer used deadly force but your reasoning is flawed.

 

I think that anyone who shoots to kill another person should always have their reasoning questioned. Sorry, but I don't just blindly accept that every shooting is justified, just like I do not ever blindly accept any type of authority. The police are here to protect the public, not kill them unless there is nothing else that can be done. If they want that responsibility they should expect to have their actions questioned.

 

As for the "hopped up on LSD" quote. The kid was naked, 5'7" and 140 pounds. He obviously wasn't carrying a concealed weapon and the officer had no way of knowing that he was on LSD by looking at him. I don't even question the shooting so much AFTER the officer chose to go outside with his gun drawn. I buy the reasoning from the sheriff who said that he didn't know if the officer would have time to holster his weapon and his pepper spray or baton.

 

Here is what I do question and what I would like to have answered by a law enforcement officer:

 

1. Does the officer not bear the responsibility to determine whether the suspect is a danger to the officer or others before determining what level of force to use?

 

In this case it would seem clear cut that since the student was outside of the building, by himself that he could only have been an immediate danger to himself. Remember, the officer had not been told that he had went after a couple of people on the way to the station. This was not known until after the incident.

 

2. Since the student was not immediately a threat to the officer or anyone else and another officer was at the station shouldn't the officer have waited for help?

 

It has been reported that the officer called for backup yet chose to go outside with his gun drawn instead of waiting. The second officer came outside seconds after the shooting.

 

3. Since the student was 5'7" 140 pounds and naked why did the officer immediately chose to use his handgun as his mode of defense when no one was in any immediate danger?

 

The officer had a baton and pepper spray and the student obviously wasn't armed. Here is a section from the campus police handbook dealing with the use of force:

 

A copy of the university’s weapons policy, released to The Associated Press in response to an open records request, shows an officer’s actions in cases where force is necessary should be based on how much a suspect resists. Deadly force is justified only when a suspect has the intent, ability and opportunity to kill or injure someone else, the policy states.

 

The policy says that an officer’s attempt to control a situation “should match (the) level of resistance then move up or down as resistance changes.” But Ayers declined comment on how the guidelines are interpreted when an officer is confronted by someone who doesn’t have a weapon, yet could present a threat.

 

Going by those regulations where is the justification for leaving the safety of the police station with gun drawn?

 

These questions should have to be answered, especially given the fact that someone lost their lives.

[The Scribe]

I agree the questions should be answered. But the answers aren't there two days after the event and until all of the facts are known, I'm not passing judgement on what the officer did because again, I don't know all of the facts. Very few people do.

 

I wonder why the AP article failed to mention the two other assaults and attempted assaults prior to his going to the police department.

[AverageJoesGym]

I agree the questions should be answered. But the answers aren't there two days after the event and until all of the facts are known, I'm not passing judgement on what the officer did because again, I don't know all of the facts. Very few people do.

 

I wonder why the AP article failed to mention the two other assaults and attempted assaults prior to his going to the police department.

 

I'm not sure. The articles that I found that mentioned the assaults were from the day after it happened and said that the officer did not have pepper spray and a baton. It was later determined that he did, in fact, have those weapons. As far as the assaults justifying the shooting or affecting the officer's decisions: They are irrelevent. The officer did not know about them when he chose to step outside. The only relevent facts are that he saw a naked student banging on the doors and windows of the police station, called for backup and chose to step outside with his firearm drawn rather than wait on that backup.

[plantmanky]

I guess the thing that bothers me most about this situation is that it happened on campus. You would have to think that campus police would be used to dealing with impaired students. With that being the case I don't understand why the officer immediately drew his gun and stepped outside where he had to make a life or death choice. No one was in an immediate danger and backup was obviously available.

 

So your saying its ok and acceptable for College students to be impaired and run at campus police naked?

[halfback20]

 

I think that anyone who shoots to kill another person should always have their reasoning questioned. Sorry, but I don't just blindly accept that every shooting is justified, just like I do not ever blindly accept any type of authority. The police are here to protect the public, not kill them unless there is nothing else that can be done. If they want that responsibility they should expect to have their actions questioned.

 

As for the "hopped up on LSD" quote. The kid was naked, 5'7" and 140 pounds. He obviously wasn't carrying a concealed weapon and the officer had no way of knowing that he was on LSD by looking at him. I don't even question the shooting so much AFTER the officer chose to go outside with his gun drawn. I buy the reasoning from the sheriff who said that he didn't know if the officer would have time to holster his weapon and his pepper spray or baton.

 

Here is what I do question and what I would like to have answered by a law enforcement officer:

 

1. Does the officer not bear the responsibility to determine whether the suspect is a danger to the officer or others before determining what level of force to use?

 

In this case it would seem clear cut that since the student was outside of the building, by himself that he could only have been an immediate danger to himself. Remember, the officer had not been told that he had went after a couple of people on the way to the station. This was not known until after the incident.

 

2. Since the student was not immediately a threat to the officer or anyone else and another officer was at the station shouldn't the officer have waited for help?

 

It has been reported that the officer called for backup yet chose to go outside with his gun drawn instead of waiting. The second officer came outside seconds after the shooting.

 

3. Since the student was 5'7" 140 pounds and naked why did the officer immediately chose to use his handgun as his mode of defense when no one was in any immediate danger?

 

The officer had a baton and pepper spray and the student obviously wasn't armed. Here is a section from the campus police handbook dealing with the use of force:

 

A copy of the university’s weapons policy, released to The Associated Press in response to an open records request, shows an officer’s actions in cases where force is necessary should be based on how much a suspect resists. Deadly force is justified only when a suspect has the intent, ability and opportunity to kill or injure someone else, the policy states.

 

The policy says that an officer’s attempt to control a situation “should match (the) level of resistance then move up or down as resistance changes.” But Ayers declined comment on how the guidelines are interpreted when an officer is confronted by someone who doesn’t have a weapon, yet could present a threat.

 

Going by those regulations where is the justification for leaving the safety of the police station with gun drawn?

 

These questions should have to be answered, especially given the fact that someone lost their lives.

 

You say you aren't going to blindly accept the officers actions but you blindly accept that the naked guy was not a threat. How do you know he wasn't a threat? It is a college campus it's not like the kid was miles away from other people. He was in close proximity to other people. Other people he attempted to assault.

 

You don't know if it was obvious he wasn't carrying a weapon. The video doesn't even show the entire incident which means the officer likely didn't know where the kid was at all times. He knew a naked man was banging on the police station doors or windows. He also didn't know what else was outside waiting for him. He doesn't have to put unnecessary risk on himself because he is a police officer. He did not know what he was walking into most likely so he had his best tool out. What if he walked outside with pepper spray and the kid is standing there with a knife or gun? He's in a fight for his life then and he is holding a useless can of pepper spray.

 

You say he didn't know the kid was high. Um...naked...banging on police station windows...ignoring police commands...he probably thought he was on bath salts or PCP.

 

You keep saying he wasn't an immediate threat but you don't know that. Have you been to that campus? Do you know how far away he was from other people? Not very far considering some heard the officer yelling at him.

 

And how was no one in immediate danger? Was the Officer not in danger when he stepped Out? The kid who was naked and high completely ignored his commands. Does the officers safety not matter?

 

I have some questions.

 

Why is LSD being used on campus so accepted that very few even care he was on it?

 

Where did he get it? Is it common for students here to use it? Why did his friends not call for help when he ran off naked and high attacking people? Did they not care or were they concerned about getting in trouble because they were high?