I can get a better interest rate on a car that depreciates than I can on an education that everyone in school told us to get? Stupidity.

 

 

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Do you not understand the economic/financial reason for that?

Grandma's New Financial Problem: College Debt - Yahoo! Finance

 

 

Student loans are a problem that simply are not just going to go away.

 

 

Interest rates should be no higher than 3%, EVER.

 

Should be forgiven at age 60.

 

Should be forgiven after 5 years public service.

 

Again, sorry, but I completely disagree. Repeating myself from another thread, higher education is not a right. It is a privilege. There is no law that says a degree has to be obtained in 4 years, either.

 

Interest rates should be what the market can bare. Just like any other loan.

 

No loan should ever be forgiven due to the age. The economy can't bare something like that now, and the baby boomers are turning 60.

 

If public service is what one wishes, and gets a loan to finance an education to work in that domain, then it is their responsibility to pay it back. Not the taxpayers, who are already paying the graduate's salary. Many private sector employers offer tuition reimbursement. If one wants their education paid for, let the private sector do it.

We are at a tipping point on the cost vs. value of education - as it is currently implemented.

 

Education is important and post-secondary education is important and critical. But the traditional college experience is extraordinarily expensive.

 

The cost of college has greatly increased since the mid-1980s (at the risk of dating myself). Tuition alone has to be around 4 times what it was in the mid 1980s for a public university. Dorm fees, food other expenses have also go up with typical inflation.

 

Has the salary of the typical starting job done the same? The answer is clearly no. A couple of years ago I check with a friend who works for the countries largest aircraft manufacturer and asked - what is the market since my son had interest in aviation. He said we are hiring - $35,000 for a 4 year engineering degree (i.e. a B.S.). That is 2010. But knowing what I started at in the mid 1980s it was striking that it was basically the same. In 25 years the typical salary for a hard science technical engineering degree was flat in absolute, non-inflation adjusted dollars.

 

As noted here it is not unusual for kids to have tens of thousands of loans coming out. And that is for public universities. I have met people who went to private colleges who have loans heading for or over $100,000.

 

Something has to give. The price vs. value of post-secondary has obviously eroded badly. Loading up on student loans to have a $30K or less a year job waiting just seems like a bad model.

We are at a tipping point on the cost vs. value of education - as it is currently implemented.

 

Education is important and post-secondary education is important and critical. But the traditional college experience is extraordinarily expensive.

 

The cost of college has greatly increased since the mid-1980s (at the risk of dating myself). Tuition alone has to be around 4 times what it was in the mid 1980s for a public university. Dorm fees, food other expenses have also go up with typical inflation.

 

Has the salary of the typical starting job done the same? The answer is clearly no. A couple of years ago I check with a friend who works for the countries largest aircraft manufacturer and asked - what is the market since my son had interest in aviation. He said we are hiring - $35,000 for a 4 year engineering degree (i.e. a B.S.). That is 2010. But knowing what I started at in the mid 1980s it was striking that it was basically the same. In 25 years the typical salary for a hard science technical engineering degree was flat in absolute, non-inflation adjusted dollars.

 

As noted here it is not unusual for kids to have tens of thousands of loans coming out. And that is for public universities. I have met people who went to private colleges who have loans heading for or over $100,000.

 

Something has to give. The price vs. value of post-secondary has obviously eroded badly. Loading up on student loans to have a $30K or less a year job waiting just seems like a bad model.

 

We had kids go to Hanover and major in EDUCATION???? That's $50,000+ in loans to become a history teacher? Just doesn't make sense. The worst are the kids who aren't cut out for college. They are better w/ their hands than the books. Parents FORCE them into a four year school and they never graduate but carry that debt. Somehow, going to a Trade school has been cast in such a negative light that people have to fall into them. Those that pick up a trade start out at close to the same pay as an average college grad, if not better, and have no student debt if their union picks it up.

We had kids go to Hanover and major in EDUCATION???? That's $50,000+ in loans to become a history teacher? Just doesn't make sense. The worst are the kids who aren't cut out for college. They are better w/ their hands than the books. Parents FORCE them into a four year school and they never graduate but carry that debt. Somehow, going to a Trade school has been cast in such a negative light that people have to fall into them. Those that pick up a trade start out at close to the same pay as an average college grad, if not better, and have no student debt if their union picks it up.

 

Yep. India has a problem in that with the focus on 'white collar' outsourcing jobs that is all they want to do. It is considered a disgrace to go into 'the trades'. Hence they lack good infrastructure building skills and their infrastructure is still 3rd world mostly. For reference - the recent 2 day power outage may have been related to the lack of focus on key infrastructure. In the US we have basically done the same thing with the bar being set at getting a 4 (or more) year BS or BA. I talked to a mother of recent marketing graduate who was unhappy since all he could really land were 'sales' jobs. His default solution - go back and get another degree. He did not even know what degree to get. But he knew his marketing degree was working to place him in a job he wanted. So there is dissapointment by many recent graduates it seems. And their answer - go get yet another degree (and load up more loan debt!).

 

$30,000 a years is roughly $15 an hour. Good plumbers, electricians, etc. make more than that. The concept of apprenticeships is one that needs to come back. There are a lot of good trades people who are going to retire soon and there will be a need. Especially if/when new construction picks up.

Lots of stories about businesses unable to meet customers' demands due to lack of qualified people working in the MFG world. There is still a perception that it's a dirty, greasy, hot environment when, in reality, a lot of today's equipment needs very good environmental conditions.

 

I remember a guy at Mazak saying if the person has a welder's cert he hires them on the spot.

 

A friend of my son realized he wasn't quite ready for a traditional 4-year college and has made the switch. Good move on his part.

Lots of stories about businesses unable to meet customers' demands due to lack of qualified people working in the MFG world. There is still a perception that it's a dirty, greasy, hot environment when, in reality, a lot of today's equipment needs very good environmental conditions.

 

I remember a guy at Mazak saying if the person has a welder's cert he hires them on the spot.

 

A friend of my son realized he wasn't quite ready for a traditional 4-year college and has made the switch. Good move on his part.

I don't think this point is being stressed to kids enough. Everyone is shoving college down kids throats 24/7. It's not for everyone and usually you are 50K in debt before you realize it on your own and you have no degree. You can make a very good living learning a trade.

Lots of stories about businesses unable to meet customers' demands due to lack of qualified people working in the MFG world. There is still a perception that it's a dirty, greasy, hot environment when, in reality, a lot of today's equipment needs very good environmental conditions.

 

I remember a guy at Mazak saying if the person has a welder's cert he hires them on the spot.

 

A friend of my son realized he wasn't quite ready for a traditional 4-year college and has made the switch. Good move on his part.

 

100 likes. While there are fewer manufacturing jobs out there, there a lots of manufacturing-industry jobs for highly-skilled workers that simply can't be filled. I don't know how to really get this out there, but it's increasingly becoming the case.

Lots of stories about businesses unable to meet customers' demands due to lack of qualified people working in the MFG world. There is still a perception that it's a dirty, greasy, hot environment when, in reality, a lot of today's equipment needs very good environmental conditions.

 

I remember a guy at Mazak saying if the person has a welder's cert he hires them on the spot.

 

A friend of my son realized he wasn't quite ready for a traditional 4-year college and has made the switch. Good move on his part.

 

I listened to some of this segment a few weeks on a long drive. Very good story on this subject.

 

A Different Road To Work, Bypassing College Dreams : NPR

All you have listed is great. Really, I encourage kids to not just think about college but Vocational School or a trade school.

 

 

That does no good for the generations that is 22-40 that racked up loans by being told they will be forgiven if you take certain jobs or hammered into their head everyday in school that college is the only way to go or your a bum.

 

I would love to know the % of college aid departments that have fudged or lied to get enrollment up and money.....

All you have listed is great. Really, I encourage kids to not just think about college but Vocational School or a trade school.

 

 

That does no good for the generations that is 22-40 that racked up loans by being told they will be forgiven if you take certain jobs or hammered into their head everyday in school that college is the only way to go or your a bum.

 

I would love to know the % of college aid departments that have fudged or lied to get enrollment up and money.....

 

All of them. Don't know about undergraduate, but the American Bar Association recently did a study of all the ways admissions offices at law schools have been fudging the numbers on post-graduation employment. It's incredible.

All of them. Don't know about undergraduate, but the American Bar Association recently did a study of all the ways admissions offices at law schools have been fudging the numbers on post-graduation employment. It's incredible.

 

Law school is real bad. Kids take out $100,000+ to attend school and to live on. Then too many (not top 10% of their class) come out and either have to start their own place or work at a place where they start at $40,000 per year. Cost analysis, man. Cost analysis.

 

Law school is real bad. Kids take out $100,000+ to attend school and to live on. Then too many (not top 10% of their class) come out and either have to start their own place or work at a place where they start at $40,000 per year. Cost analysis, man. Cost analysis.

 

My son faced a similar decision a couple of years ago. He decided to switch his post-graduate plans from a Doctorate in Physical Therapy to a Masters in Health Administration. He got a job in his field within a month of graduating and cut off 2+ years of getting his post-graduate degree, saving him an estimated $70,000.

All you have listed is great. Really, I encourage kids to not just think about college but Vocational School or a trade school.

 

 

That does no good for the generations that is 22-40 that racked up loans by being told they will be forgiven if you take certain jobs or hammered into their head everyday in school that college is the only way to go or your a bum.

 

I would love to know the % of college aid departments that have fudged or lied to get enrollment up and money.....

 

Those who were lied to should contact some of the out of work or underpaid lawyers, with $100K plus student loans, and sue, or prosecute, the liars and fudgers. I'm sorry for their situation, but they should not expect the government to forgive loans obtained on bad advice.

We live in a society, and have for the last 20 years, where almost any information is at our fingertips. For the grandparents who took out loans to pay for their grandchildren's educations, the responsibility for getting into bad debt is on them and their offspring, who should have been looking out for their parents interests.