Trinity alum

I don't disagree with much of what you say. I don't want any school, including mine, recruiting kids because they are athletes. I think there is much that can and should be done to tighten the rules regarding contact between coaches and prospective students. In the CJ this week, Jim Sexton, the principal of Eastern High School and a member of the Board of Control stated that if a coach isn't out finding out about great athletes he doesn't want them for a coach. That attitude needs to change for ALL schools. Bob Redman at Male is very up front about his own recruiting. I think that families that don't think they can afford a private school are encouraged to look into it by all of the public school talk about athletic scholarships. Once they look into it they start trying to figure out a way to pay for it.

Uh, try reading it again and then say "oops, never mind".

I don't know who Ed Wright is, but I'll relate a personal experience. When our family was selecting a high school for our sons we went to the Trinity open house. While there we talked to a number of people about a lot of activities. The night before the placement exam we received a call from the quick recall coach and the fishing club moderator. They wanted to make sure that we knew how much we were wanted at Trinity.

Let's be very clear. Are you claiming that students give financial aid differently based on athletic ability or where the prospective student went to school prior to the private school? I'm simple so please spell it out for me. Don't insinuate. Just give it to me in simple declarative sentences.

Pete, Thank you for the information. Just for my education, will you cite the KHSAA rule that it would violate? I'll wait for your response but I won't hold my breath.

Pete, I had a little trouble following what you said, but I've tried to interpret what you meant to say. If I understand what you are saying, your argument is that Non Kentucky residents should not be able to play for Kentucky schools. I would disagree with you, but that is one possibility for a rule the KHSAA could pass. As of right now out of state players can play in Kentucky. They could play for Male or Manual IF male or Manual chose to accept them. The rules are the same for everyone.

Well then let's have a separate class for Baptists. Let's have a separate class for the middle class. Let's have a separate class for the poor. They are already trying to set up a class for Know Nothings. I am not an attorney, but let's look at what I see as the basis for a law suit. 1. The KHSAA is an agent of state government. The courts have already ruled on this in an open records case. This places a much higher burden on the KHSAA than state associations that are voluntary associations to avoid discriminatory practices. 2. The KHSAA has passed a rule that says that member schools cannot play against schools that are not members of their state organisations. Therefore membership in the KHSAA is required in order to participate in high school athletics in Kentuucky. 3. The separation of the KHSAA into private and public divisions is arbitrary, discriminatory and without logical basis. The vast majority of the private schools have demonstrated NO athletic advantage, yet these schools are segregated into a separate category. 4. Public schools that have demonstrated high athletic achievement and which have most, if not all, of the private school advantages are not being segregated into a separate category. Thus the division is arbitrary. 5. The private school playoffs will consist of fewer rounds of competition than the public school playoffs, thus depriving the private schools of the opportunity to earn much needed revenue and causing irreparable harm. 6. The private schools that are being segregated into a separate class are primarily faith based institutions. The segregation is an effort on the part of public school administrators to discriminate against faith based instituions. These are just a few things off the top of my head. Anyone else care to add?

The private schools have offered alternatives but the Know Nothings keep asking for more. There are workable solutions, but I don't think that the Know Nothings want any of them. They want the separation because they want to trumpet that they are not able to compete.

DeVries has already floated a trial baloon that Prop 20 might make it necessary to take all of the revenue from post season play. I hope all of the Know Nothings that voted for this don't miss the revenue.

Since there are NO schools in Kentucky that offer athletic scholarships, there is no need for the split

Based on yesterday's vote it is the publics that have the feeling that the privates are better. So much better in fact that the publics can never catch up.

I believe that at least one star player came from a Catholic grade school. I wonder why no one complains about that?

Something I can agree with. Iam disgusted. I don't think this travesty will take place. I trust that the Board of Control and Board of Education will be a lot smarter than the idiots that voted today. If they aren't, we'll have to rely on the courts and the legislature. There are a number of reasons why this would hurt both public and private schools. The playoffs on the private side won't exist. In 4A there are only two schools. That doesn't make for much of a playoff. Even if you combine 4A and 3A, there are still only four teams. So all of you Rams can blow all of the smoke you want. The reality is that if we stay in the KHSAA there are no playoffs for us. Second, there is the issue of money. Trinity and x get the split gate from 3 or 4 games a year in the playoffs. That revenue is gone. I have trouble figuring why Trinity or x would agree to a one game playoff system where the state gets the gate. How about we just play each other at the end of the season and split the gate. We can buy our own trophy with the $200,000 gate. For the public schools there is the public admission that they aren't as good. There is also the problem of loss of revenue. The biggest payday of the year for a public school is when they play Trinity or x. Few, if any, would get the chance. The biggest football paydays for the KHSAA are also when Trinity or x play. Bye Bye money. DeVries has already mentioned in the paper that it might be necessary for the KHSAA to start taking the playoff revenue from all rounds. When the public schools lose that revenue, I hope they are happy. I am truly surprised at how angry this has made me. I am hoping that cooler heads will prevail. I am also surprised that so many of the have not schools voted for this. Most of those schools couldn't take home a championship trophy if someone locked it in the trunk of their car. This will only change the names of the teams that win. The wins will still be concentrated in very few hands. A trip down memory lane. I remember that 1988 loss by the Rams. Spoiled your perfect season as I recall. Score was 28-0.

Most of the schools are not sponsored by the Archdiocese of Louisville. Most of the girls schools are sponsored by a religious order. St. x is sponsored by the Xavieran Brothers. Trinity was founded by the Archdiocese but has been governed by an independent board for quite a few years. The number of kids at each school is determined by the number of kids that want to go to school there. I don't think any of them turn students away.

If you read the KHSAA rules you will find that they are EXACTLY the same for all. I challenge anyone to show me one KHSAA rule that is different.

The adgenda is attached. http://www.khsaa.org/annualmeeting/20052006/delegateassemblyorder2005.pdf The discussion was this morning. The voting is going on now.

So the real basis for inequity is financial status. If that is the case then make the division based on the median income of the parents. I'll jump out on a limb and speculate that the median income at Ballard, Male and Manual is as high as it is at Trinity. I'll stay out on that limb and bet that the median income at those three schools is higher than it is at DeSales or Holy Cross. What is the point. Income is not the same at all schools and parents with more resources are able to provide those resources to their children.

Don't drop out too soon Rockmom. After the Board of Control there is still the Education Department. After that there will be the state legislature. And I shouldn't leave the courts out of it. They will be important too. I think that we are just at the beginning of the fight. I plan to make every polititian aware that there will be a price to be paid for this. I'll begin with the Jefferson County school board and move on to the legislature.

Ram, are you a farmer? You sure seem to have access to a lot of manure. It isn't the same and you know it. I have heard one proposal to put Trinity and x into the same region. I wouldn't think it was fair, but I could live with it. How about all of the Louisville 4A schools in two districts just like it is now. The difference would be that those two districts would be in the same region.

I'll take STRONG disagreement. In most schools there are a lot of kids walking the halls that could be turned into good high school players IF they were on the team. It is those kids that are the real advantage at Trinity or x.

I started a thread on the same topic. Can someone combine them? Another question, since we are accused of raiding the public schools for the top players, How many of these kids are from Catholic grade schools?

I thought one of the Manual posters referred to her as Dr. Keepers. If not, my mistake.

In the football thread there is a list of all Kentucky High School graduates playing Div 1 football. Some of the top numbers are: Male 9 St x 9 Highlands 7 Paducah Tilghman 4 Boyle Co 4 Pulaski SW 4 Manual 4 E-town 4 Paul Dunbar 3 Conner 3 Trinity 3 Lex Cath 3 Sorry if I missed anyone with 3 or more. What does this tell us? The most successful team in 4-A football isn't close to the top of the list. The Lex Cath team that is object of a boycott is no better on the list than Paul Dunbar. Anyone still want to argue that private schools are unfairly grabbing all of the top talent? The top private school has no more than the top public school. The most successful private school is not near the top in Div 1 talent. If we really want to "level the playing field" maybe we should just kick all of the teams with four or more out. It makes as much sense as the other proposals.

I think you are right. The public schools have a lot more top athletes. Schools like Trinity or x have a whole lot of kids that become fair to good high school players. Just look at the UofL roster. How many Male players do they have? The CSAA is a big reason for the success at T and x.

To all of the Manual posters on this board: If you are against these proposals, good. I don't believe that I have called you any names. If I have, my apologies. I would suggest that you use whatever influence you have as distinguished alumni to attempt to inform Dr. Keepers of the real situation regarding financial aid in private high schools. "The time is past when good men may be silent." I have not had anything good to say about your principal because she is a misinformed know nothing, at least on this issue. She may be good to her dog and an otherwise fine person but to the extent that she represents duPont Manual High School, her actions bring discredit on the school. As far as taking this as personal, it is. When a kid enrolls at Trinity, they become part of the family, my family. Come after my family and it is personal.