Watch James Worthy's first step explosiveness a little more closely -- nobody in today's game could stop that.

 

You may have a case with Parish, as his success was directly tied to Bird, and he was a middle-of-the-road guy until coming to the C's.

 

McHale was arguably the most creative low-post scorer ever, which translates well to today. As it was once said, "He's got 13 different moves in the low post, the last one being to kick it back out."

 

 

With Worthy I really don't recall him creating his own shot. I remember him relying on Magic for his production. Put him with Kidd, Rondo, Paul, Williams, Rose, Westbrook or any other top tier point guard and he shines. Stick him with Chalmers, Calderon, Lowry, Brooks, Conley or any other middle of the road point guard and let's see if Worthy can carry a team. I don't see that from him.

 

 

McHale is an enigma for me. Like Bird I can't find anyone playing today that reminds me of him. I don't know if that is good or bad and I am leaning towards bad. Just seems like he could get pushed around down low and how good he can be without Bird being the other forward is a mystery.

With Worthy I really don't recall him creating his own shot. I remember him relying on Magic for his production. Put him with Kidd, Rondo, Paul, Williams, Rose, Westbrook or any other top tier point guard and he shines. Stick him with Chalmers, Calderon, Lowry, Brooks, Conley or any other middle of the road point guard and let's see if Worthy can carry a team. I don't see that from him.

 

 

McHale is an enigma for me. Like Bird I can't find anyone playing today that reminds me of him. I don't know if that is good or bad and I am leaning towards bad. Just seems like he could get pushed around down low and how good he can be without Bird being the other forward is a mystery.

 

You don't average 17.6 ppg just on running the fast break. Worthy's first step in the post was lightning, regularly embarrassing crafty low-post defenders like McHale and Bird, as well as quicker men. He wasn't asked to carry the team, though. But he was a great second banana when he needed to be.

I'm not an NBA expert ... in fact, I hardly watch it now. But Parish and McHale were in the 6-10, 6-11 range and had skills. They would easily be good players in this day and age. The NBA is watered-down a little more than it was in their day. Better athletes doesn't always translate into better players.

 

Respectfully disagree. There has never been more talent in the NBA than there is right now IMO. You have a ton of first ballot Hall of Fame guys just before, in or having recently left their primes. Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant, LeBron, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Dirk Nowitzki, DWade, DHoward are easy first ballot HOF guys. Allen Iverson is recently out of basketball but is another guy of this era that is a lock for the HOF. That's not even including guys that are most likely going to get in like Pau Gasol or Melo.

 

No way does the 80s NBA compare to today in terms of how much talent is out there. Maybe no one matches the Showtime Lakers or Bird Celtics in terms of star power, but still.

You don't average 17.6 ppg just on running the fast break. Worthy's first step in the post was lightning, regularly embarrassing crafty low-post defenders like McHale and Bird, as well as quicker men. He wasn't asked to carry the team, though. But he was a great second banana when he needed to be.

 

That's a good point. I have no real reason to believe he couldn't still be a good second banana on the right team.

Respectfully disagree. There has never been more talent in the NBA than there is right now IMO. You have a ton of first ballot Hall of Fame guys just before, in or having recently left their primes. Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant, LeBron, Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Dirk Nowitzki, DWade, DHoward are easy first ballot HOF guys. Allen Iverson is recently out of basketball but is another guy of this era that is a lock for the HOF. That's not even including guys that are most likely going to get in like Pau Gasol or Melo.

 

No way does the 80s NBA compare to today in terms of how much talent is out there. Maybe no one matches the Showtime Lakers or Bird Celtics in terms of star power, but still.

 

This is my line of thinking as well. You also didn't mention the depth of talent at point guard. I have never seen as many great point guards playing in the same time period as we are now.

I'm not an NBA expert ... in fact, I hardly watch it now. But Parish and McHale were in the 6-10, 6-11 range and had skills. They would easily be good players in this day and age. The NBA is watered-down a little more than it was in their day. Better athletes doesn't always translate into better players.

 

This is my line of thinking as well. You also didn't mention the depth of talent at point guard. I have never seen as many great point guards playing in the same time period as we are now.

 

Think of some of the people I left off:

DRose, Durant, Westbrook, Amare, Chris Bosh, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Deron Williams, CP3, Joe Johnson (if we must), LaMarcus Aldridge, Carlos Boozer, Al Horford, Kevin Love, Blake Griffin, Brandon Roy (when healthy), John Wall, Tyreke Evans, Monta Ellis, etc.

First of all I don't think that anyone was aying that Dirk was a bad player, he is very good. I know that I certainly wasn't offended. I was just emphasizing how great that Bird was.

Yes, Bird had McHale and Parish, he made them better and the game easier for them and not the other way around. Those were some great Celtic teams, all were good players and Bird was great/superstar player. Without Bird, that Celtic team was a little above average.

Also, Bird top 20, arguably top 10?? I think that Larry Bird was a top 5 player. JMO

 

To say that two HOF post players did not help make the game easier for Larry Bird is crazy, IMO. Parrish and McHale made the game easier for Bird on both ends of the floor. Bird was the alpha dog, no doubt. If he were playing for the Sacramento Kings during those years, I wonder how many rings he would have?

 

Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Dr. J and Tim Duncan can all be considered better than Bird, IMO. Hard to say that Bird is definitively better than any of these guys, IMO, let alone definitively top 5.

To say that two HOF post players did not help make the game easier for Larry Bird is crazy, IMO. Parrish and McHale made the game easier for Bird on both ends of the floor. Bird was the alpha dog, no doubt. If he were playing for the Sacramento Kings during those years, I wonder how many rings he would have?

 

Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Dr. J and Tim Duncan can all be considered better than Bird, IMO. Hard to say that Bird is definitively better than any of these guys, IMO, let alone definitively top 5.

 

I love Tim, but I did not mean to include him twice- I meant to throw Oscar Robertson in there somewhere.

Some of you young guys need to take a look at Oscar Robertsons stats before you say who is one of the five best players ever. Just my opinion

Some of you young guys need to take a look at Oscar Robertsons stats before you say who is one of the five best players ever. Just my opinion

 

Took a look- here's what I found:

 

Career highlights and awards

NBA Champion (1971)

NBA Most Valuable Player (1964)

12× NBA All-Star (1961–1972)

9× All-NBA First Team (1961–1969)

2× All-NBA Second Team (1970–1971)

NBA Rookie of the Year (1961)

3× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1961, 1964, 1969)

50 Greatest Players in NBA History

2× USBWA College Player of the Year (1959, 1960)

 

Career NBA statistics

Points 26,710 (25.7 ppg)

Assists 9,887 (9.5 apg)

Rebounds 7,804 (7.5 rpg)

 

Yeah- looks like top 5 to me

Some of you young guys need to take a look at Oscar Robertsons stats before you say who is one of the five best players ever. Just my opinion

 

Where did I put him? 6? The Big O is my 3rd favorite baller of all-time behind LeBron and Pistol Pete. Wins are the reason I put MJ, Magic, Wilt, Russell and Kobe above him. Add the Big O and Shaq in and I think that makes the 7 best players in league history that should go in a tier to themselves. Guys like Bird, Dr. J, Duncan, etc. are nice, but the top 7 are guys who completely changed the game and are easily better than the rest of the guys mentioned. :thumb:

Everybody has an opinion and I am not saying mine is right because Kobe and MJ are great players and I love to watch them play. I think the Big O was stuck on a team for so long that wasn't willing to get the best players at the time. When he got to a team that had some players he really excelled. All the guys everyone has mentioned are great players without question and would be today. tomarrow, and the next day.

Mj in my opinion is the best player ever. and Larry Bird is high on the list.