"I remember a conference in New York City. The topic was social justice. Assembled for the meetign were theologians, pastors, priests, nuns, and lay church leaders. At one point a native American stood up, looked out over the most white audience, and said, 'regardless of what the New Testament says, most Christians are materialists with no experience of the Spirit. Regardless of what the New Testament says, most Christians are individualists with no real experience of community.' He pause for a moment and then continued: 'Let's pretend that you were all Christians. If you were Christians, you would no longer accumulate. You would share everything you had. you would actually love one another. And you would treat each other as if you were family.' His eyes wer peircing as he asked, "Why don't you do that? Why don't you live that way?". . .

 

People can read what our scriptures say, and they can see how Christians live. The gulf between the two has created an enormous credibility gap.

 

Jim Wallis

 

Why don't we live that way??

We're human therefore we can't be perfect Christians. If we we're going to be perfect, why did Jesus die on the cross? Where in the Bible does it say you must give everything away and not accumulate to be a Christian? We all fall short, some shorter than others and none are perfect. Thank GOD for His Grace.

We're human therefore we can't be perfect Christians. If we we're going to be perfect, why did Jesus die on the cross? Where in the Bible does it say you must give everything away and not accumulate to be a Christian? We all fall short, some shorter than others and none are perfect. Thank GOD for His Grace.

 

Really, you can think of now warnings that Jesus gives against wealth and the accumulation of stuff? Have you read any of Jesus words?

Really, you can think of now warnings that Jesus gives against wealth and the accumulation of stuff? Have you read any of Jesus words?

 

I've read and studied ACE, but I admit not near as much as I should. I may not be near the expert you are. I have read enough to know that there is no way I could be right in judging whether or not someone was a christian by what kind of car, house or bank account they have. I'll leave that judgement up to GOD. :thumb:

 

I would deeply appreciate it if you wouldn't judge what I know about scripture pal. You have absolutely no place in doing so. Understand my friend?

Where in the Bible does it say you must give everything away and not accumulate to be a Christian?

 

This one comes to mind:

 

Matthew 19:16-26

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

When are you getting rid of your stuff Ace... Don't really need a computer do you....

When are you getting rid of your stuff Ace... Don't really need a computer do you....

 

I agree with you. We all accumulate stuff. I think the teaching of Jesus says to not put the accumulation of stuff over your salvation. Certainly a rich man can make it to heaven; but the temptation to put faith in material things over spiritual things is certainly great.

MATHEW 19:16-26

 

When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

MATHEW 19:16-26

 

When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

Very true. It's hard to just take one single verse. But Jesus makes it pretty clear that it is difficult for a rich man to make it to heaven. As I mentioned in a previous post, it can be very easy for people to put their faith in belongings instead of Christ. Certainly Christ can do anything - but do you believe the rich man in that parable could feel very good about his afterlife when he was walking away sorrowful because he had great possessions that he refused to sell and give to the poor?

Very true. It's hard to just take one single verse. But Jesus makes it pretty clear that it is difficult for a rich man to make it to heaven. As I mentioned in a previous post, it can be very easy for people to put their faith in belongings instead of Christ. Certainly Christ can do anything - but do you believe the rich man in that parable could feel very good about his afterlife when he was walking away sorrowful because he had great possessions that he refused to sell and give to the poor?

 

I'm just not into judging whether or not people are Christians. Although some might disagree, It's not our place to do so.

 

 

Something silly to say: If all the rich give their possessions to the poor, wouldn't the poor have a hard time being Christian then? This is a silly discussion.

I'm just not into judging whether or not people are Christians. Although some might disagree, It's not our place to do so.

 

Something silly to say: If all the rich give their possessions to the poor, wouldn't the poor have a hard time being Christian then? This is a silly discussion.

 

I don't think it's a judgment issue on that parable. Parables are used by Jesus for teaching us; I think he does a nice job there. As for giving to the poor, it's hard to dispute that the Bible says that. You make an interesting point that the poor would then be rich, an would thus have to give to the former-rich. Of course the early Christians actually pooled all of their possessions together and shared equally. People certainly don't want to talk about that today!

I'm just not into judging whether or not people are Christians. Although some might disagree, It's not our place to do so.

 

 

Something silly to say: If all the rich give their possessions to the poor, wouldn't the poor have a hard time being Christian then? This is a silly discussion.

 

Then don't participate. FWIW I passed no judgment on you at all. I make no claims to know your heart. I responded to a question you asked in your post, which I found incredulous. How is that passing judgment? As to my computer, if you noticed in the first post I asked why 'we' do not live that way. Why is our paradigm different from what Jesus talks about?

I don't think it's a judgment issue on that parable. Parables are used by Jesus for teaching us; I think he does a nice job there. As for giving to the poor, it's hard to dispute that the Bible says that. Of course you make an interesting point that the poor would then be rich, an would thus have to give to the former-rich. Of course the early Christians actually pooled all of their possessions together and shared equally. People certainly don't want to talk about that today!

 

It would be nice if we could live by the Bible. The fact of the matter is we can't, not even ACE, but we should try. We will sin, that is inevitable. Some, if not all of us will fall short in what we give to our fellow man. Again, thank God for His Grace. Without His Grace, we are ALL doomed.

Then don't participate. FWIW I passed no judgment on you at all. I make no claims to know your heart. I responded to a question you asked in your post, which I found incredulous. How is that passing judgment? As to my computer, if you noticed in the first post I asked why 'we' do not live that way. Why is our paradigm different from what Jesus talks about?

 

Nor do you have the right to tell me not to participate. Go find someone that needs everything you have, give it to them, borrow their computer and get back with me.

It would be nice if we could live by the Bible. The fact of the matter is we can't, not even ACE, but we should try. We will sin, that is inevitable. Some, if not all of us will fall short in what we give to our fellow man. Again, thank God for His Grace. Without His Grace, we are ALL doomed.

 

Well said, Skin. It is difficult. But we should always be striving to do that, myself included. Paul described himself as a "sinner, among who I am chief." That's a good way to describe me, too.