So all of this baloney about the small business owner being the driving force in the American economy is just that, baloney. It is the big businesses with stock holders. Gotcha

Animals have to fight, steal etc. to survive people don't.

 

Yes they do. OK, lets drop the steal part. But do people have to fight and struggle, strain, compete and win to make a living and to get ahead? Of course. 60-70 hours a week. Check. Working 18 hour days to meet deadlines. Check. Miss kids birthday parties while traveling on business. Check. Doing red-eyes every week. Check. Its not easy . There are no free or easy rides.

 

 

Free market economies allow for entities to create new markets, for new players to come in, for old players to be overaken and for winners and losers to be sorted out. And through this process people are hired, they are fired, they are promoted and they are laid off and sometimes businesses become the next Microsoft and the owners and key contributors are well rewarded. Sometimes they go out of business and shut their doors and people file for unemployment. Its not a pre-planned, centrally controlled, well coriographed process. New competitors come in, some competitors team-up to become a new threat, some try to buy marketshare to get a foothold. Companies and businesses of all sizes are faced with this every day.

 

In a vibrant economy where this activity is continous the impact on people on a broad scale is not a problem. In a slow or dead economy the impact is worse. We are seeing that now.

 

Equating big business with greed is simplistic and cliche-ish. Most executives are not Gorden Gecko and are not Enron-types. Most are trying to do their mission of managing resources to obtain the best results.

Yes they do. OK, lets drop the steal part. But do people have to fight and struggle, strain, compete and win to make a living and to get ahead? Of course. 60-70 hours a week. Check. Working 18 hour days to meet deadlines. Check. Miss kids birthday parties while traveling on business. Check. Doing red-eyes every week. Check. Its not easy . There are no free or easy rides.

 

 

Free market economies allow for entities to create new markets, for new players to come in, for old players to be overaken and for winners and losers to be sorted out. And through this process people are hired, they are fired, they are promoted and they are laid off and sometimes businesses become the next Microsoft and the owners and key contributors are well rewarded. Sometimes they go out of business and shut their doors and people file for unemployment. Its not a pre-planned, centrally controlled, well coriographed process. New competitors come in, some competitors team-up to become a new threat, some try to buy marketshare to get a foothold. Companies and businesses of all sizes are faced with this every day.

 

In a vibrant economy where this activity is continous the impact on people on a broad scale is not a problem. In a slow or dead economy the impact is worse. We are seeing that now.

 

Equating big business with greed is simplistic and cliche-ish. Most executives are not Gorden Gecko and are not Enron-types. Most are trying to do their mission of managing resources to obtain the best results.

 

Just doing God's work like the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

Just doing God's work like the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

 

So what exactly do you do?

This is exactly how I feel. I hate big business, because I think it reinforces greed. We are taught that value in life is all about success, making more money, etc. Big Business tells us that this is freedom, but it's not. It's just Darwinism, which isn't necessary. Animals have to fight, steal etc. to survive people don't.

 

You do realize people are animals, right?

Just doing God's work like the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

 

Do not confuse my defense of the free-market, capitalist system as defense for actions by certain individuals - especially those from Goldman Sachs.

 

While free-market systems and capitalism move resources and people of all types around to get the best quality, best price, most profit for the owners and so on, it can be manipulated. Goldman Sachs is a company that seems to thrive on that manipulation and are backer of the Too Big to Fail (TBTF)mentality.

 

 

No system, including our own, is a pure free-market system as described by Adam Smith. But actions that disrupt or atttempt artifically control the free-market principles are almost universally bad. Those actions can come from government with price controls, quotas (of products), tarriffs, etc. Or those actions can come from insiders who take part in insider trading, fraudulent financial statements, monopolistic practices.

 

The issue is that the more centralized both government and companies are the more the power is consolidated. As the saying goes - absolute power, corrupts absolutely. Consolidated power also corrupts quite a bit.

Just doing God's work like the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

 

BTW, the CEO of Goldman Sachs is not hired to do God's work. He is hired to 'generate wealth for his owners' as all CEOs are.

 

Companies and CEO exist for one reason - generate wealth for their owners. They DO a lot of other things and a lot of those things are benefit the community they work in and those that they serve.

 

But I think we can find a common view the people who run companies must do so with a moral compass and with fiduciary responsbility to their employees and others. I have worked with some of the largest name brand companies in this country. Most are run and managed by very good people who take this responsibility very seriously. They do not make the news. Then there are the Enrons, the Goldman Sachs, the AIGs, BAs, etc. who are run by people who think they can outsmart Adam Smith and outsmart the game - and they leave a wake of turmoil in their path.

BTW, the CEO of Goldman Sachs is not hired to do God's work. He is hired to 'generate wealth for his owners' as all CEOs are.

 

Companies and CEO exist for one reason - generate wealth for their owners. They DO a lot of other things and a lot of those things are benefit the community they work in and those that they serve.

 

But I think we can find a common view the people who run companies must do so with a moral compass and with fiduciary responsbility to their employees and others. I have worked with some of the largest name brand companies in this country. Most are run and managed by very good people who take this responsibility very seriously. They do not make the news. Then there are the Enrons, the Goldman Sachs, the AIGs, BAs, etc. who are run by people who think they can outsmart Adam Smith and outsmart the game - and they leave a wake of turmoil in their path.

 

i was paraphrasing him, or quoting one - he said he was doing God's work as the CEO

This is exactly how I feel. I hate big business, because I think it reinforces greed. We are taught that value in life is all about success, making more money, etc. Big Business tells us that this is freedom, but it's not. It's just Darwinism, which isn't necessary. Animals have to fight, steal etc. to survive people don't.

 

You speak of big business as if it is a few people making a fortune and no one else getting anything. Big business is thousands of working people, it's not some organism. Proctor and Gamble is a big business. It is 120,000 people world wide working and raising families.

 

Do the few at the top make more than anyone needs? Maybe, but why do you care how much someone else makes?

 

Actors, actresses, professional athletes, and musicians do to, but I seldom here anyone complaining about them.

I’ve known a lot of entrepreneurs and business people. I’ve also known a lot of politicians. I have found business people to be much more honest than politicians. I’ll take the ingenuity and drive of people risking their own over people who live off of others. Entrepreneurial people desire to have control their own destiny. Politicians want to control the destiny of others.

I’ve known a lot of entrepreneurs and business people. I’ve also known a lot of politicians. I have found business people to be much more honest than politicians. I’ll take the ingenuity and drive of people risking their own over people who live off of others. Entrepreneurial people desire to have control their own destiny. Politicians want to control the destiny of others.

Very well said! :thumb:

Unchecked growth is not always a good thing, because, as we've seen time and time again, the depths that some business operators will sink to in order to squeeze every penny out of it invariably ends up causing suffering. And the bigger the operation, the greater the impact of the suffering.

 

Sort of like Government officials & politicians.

So all of this baloney about the small business owner being the driving force in the American economy is just that, baloney. It is the big businesses with stock holders. Gotcha

 

So what exactly do you do?

 

I'm willing to bet that acemona has never run a business or tried to make a payroll.

 

Ace, when you've actually been "in the arena" of business (small or large) for an appreciable amount of time, get back to us.

 

Our country is suffering, and will continue to suffer, as long as theoreticians like you & Obama are making the country's decisions.

I’ve known a lot of entrepreneurs and business people. I’ve also known a lot of politicians. I have found business people to be much more honest than politicians. I’ll take the ingenuity and drive of people risking their own over people who live off of others. Entrepreneurial people desire to have control their own destiny. Politicians want to control the destiny of others.

 

As a long-time business owner who has always played by the rules and strives to treat his employees with respect, thank you. Well said.:thumb:

I'm willing to bet that acemona has never run a business or tried to make a payroll.

 

Ace, when you've actually been "in the arena" of business (small or large) for an appreciable amount of time, get back to us.

 

Our country is suffering, and will continue to suffer, as long as theoreticians like you & Obama are making the country's decisions.

 

Please check the quote I was referring to, and note the sarcasm.

 

also, in relation to whether or not I have run a business. . . None of you guys have been president and you sure do 'theorize' on whether or not President Obama is doing a good job. So when you have been president for a while, get back to me.

 

If you had to have the specific experience to be able to comment on anything on this board then the board would simply disappear.

 

When you guys actually work everyday with young people who are oppressed by the economic system then come talk to me about whether or not it works. As long as theoreticians like you guys are making call about our economy these young people will continue to suffer.