That was a letter, not an article.

 

You are absolutely correct, thanks for pointing that out.

That is exactly the point. That is what needs to be fixed, that way public school students won’t think twice about leaving the public school system.

 

Also I feel the majority of your reply dealt with the short comings of an individual school not the school system as a whole.

Man, you are way behind in this debate...

 

Yes, it dealt with individual schools and not the system as a whole, because before if you were a really smart and trapped at a school like that (read: in a poor neighborhood) you just had to sit there and take it, or

 

GO TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

Man, you are way behind in this debate...

 

Yes, it dealt with individual schools and not the system as a whole, because before if you were a really smart and trapped at a school like that (read: in a poor neighborhood) you just had to sit there and take it, or

 

GO TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL.

The high schools in Jefferson County are large enough to be able to teach all levels. The have not schools of Jefferson County would benefit from the leadership that would be provided by having smart and motivated students that are now concentrated in very few schools. Most high schools in Jefferson County are larger than Trinity, yet Trinity has enough students to be able to teach to all levels. I think that the primary reason behind the magnet programs was to create a couple of schools that JCPS could point to and yell "See, we're just as good as the private schools". For every really good school they made, they also made a really bad one. That is the problem.

You need to read the article again. Your reply did not even touch on the main point of the Public School observation being made.

MY point is that his view is incorrect. These kids do have a sense of pride. St.X and Trinity draw from all over, how is it any different??? Mr. Stewart is writing an opinion that is self serving to his interest as an employee of a private school. It would be to his advantage if many of the students and athletes that chose not to attend their home school did not have a choice of a top notch program that was free. That would limit their choice to private school or their home school. And as I addressed before, many of the students at Manual would go to St. X Assumption, Sacred Heart, Trinity, or Collegiate if Manual was not an option open to them. Manual is more a draw from the private schools then it is from the rest of the public schools. The Magnet program is not the cause of the brain drain, that was happening before, what the Magnets schools have done is to provide a public option that is as appealing to students as the private yet instead of charging tuition they make preformance the entry fee.

The high schools in Jefferson County are large enough to be able to teach all levels. The have not schools of Jefferson County would benefit from the leadership that would be provided by having smart and motivated students that are now concentrated in very few schools. Most high schools in Jefferson County are larger than Trinity, yet Trinity has enough students to be able to teach to all levels. I think that the primary reason behind the magnet programs was to create a couple of schools that JCPS could point to and yell "See, we're just as good as the private schools". For every really good school they made, they also made a really bad one. That is the problem.

I think people from outside of Manual don't understand two things.

 

1) The level of education that you can possible achieve at Manual exceeds what would be possible in other settings, including if every school in the county had a full range of difficulty levels. Manual teaches not only more AP classes than anyone else, but has more AP subjects. You'd miss out on a few of those if you tried to spread them around. Particularly since they wouldn't get spread around evenly.

 

An example: One of my best friends went to Assumption until her senior year, then transfered to Manual. The reason? She literaly ran out of classes to take there. So she came to Manual, took the AP classes offered that Assumption didn't have, and got to take advantage of the relationship Manual has with U of L and take more classes there, too.

 

2) There's a thing called the Kentucky Acadamey of Math and Science coming. It will be a two year program down at WKU for Juniors and Seniors, and it will basically be a two head start on college. Without a school like Manual, which having taken college level courses at WKU I can say is actually more challenging, we're just going to end up losing more kids to that sort of program, or to private schools. And you can't blame them, these kids and their parents are looking for the best level of education that they can achieve.

 

The bottom line is, teaching kids to their own level will raise the scores for all groups. If you made the county entirely into home districts, that would never happen for a lot of kids in poor areas.

The high schools in Jefferson County are large enough to be able to teach all levels. The have not schools of Jefferson County would benefit from the leadership that would be provided by having smart and motivated students that are now concentrated in very few schools. Most high schools in Jefferson County are larger than Trinity, yet Trinity has enough students to be able to teach to all levels. I think that the primary reason behind the magnet programs was to create a couple of schools that JCPS could point to and yell "See, we're just as good as the private schools". For every really good school they made, they also made a really bad one. That is the problem.

So I guess only the kids who are blest or lucky enough have parents that will work two jobs to pay tuition or are wealthy enough to afford private schools should have a shot at a decent education? The problem is that there are alot of people having kids and do not care about their education, and no matter how nice the facilities are and no matter how much money there is thrown at the problem, there are going to be alot of kids that aren't going to work towards the goal of getting a good education.

You can lead a horse to water but you CANNOT make him drink. Manual is here for the horses that want to drink. And it is not like this was the reason these programs where started, it is an outstanding realisation of the changes brought on by Brown verses the Board of Education made into a positive instead of a negitive. And also are the other top programs at other schools. And you make it sound as if there are only a few programs out there, except for two or three schools out there like Moore, most all the JCPS schools have a high achieving program to draw top students and keep them there.

Manual is not the only good program or school in the public school system. Seneca, Male, Ballard, Eastern, Fern Creek, Butler, Central, PRP, and others have been doing a very good job turning out graduates that go to College or the Military. And by erasing Manual's programs you would not then reinforce the other public schools with tons of brains, about 25 % of Manuals kids would probably go to private schools, then about 10% would stay at Manual because it would be there home school anyway, then the other 65% would be spread out among the 20 other schools giving them each about 3.5% of Manuals students. And even then, there is no guarentee that they are getting any of the top achievers from Manual, so each school is going to benifit nominally from a few addition high to middle range test scores.

So I guess only the kids who are blest or lucky enough have parents that will work two jobs to pay tuition or are wealthy enough to afford private schools should have a shot at a decent education? The problem is that there are alot of people having kids and do not care about their education, and no matter how nice the facilities are and no matter how much money there is thrown at the problem, there are going to be alot of kids that aren't going to work towards the goal of getting a good education.

You can lead a horse to water but you CANNOT make him drink.

Manual is not the only good program or school in the public school system. Seneca, Male, Ballard, Eastern, Fern Creek, Butler, Central, PRP, and others have been doing a very good job turning out graduates that go to College or the Military. And by erasing Manual's programs you would not then reinforce the other public schools with tons of brains, about 25 % of Manuals kids would probably go to private schools, then about 10% would stay at Manual because it would be there home school anyway, then the other 65% would be spread out among the 20 other schools giving them each about 3.5% of Manuals students. And even then, there is no guarentee that they are getting any of the top achievers from Manual, so each school is going to benifit nominally from a few addition high to middle range test scores.

And of those 65% going to other public schools, it would be a CLASSIC case of the rich getting richer, as Eastern, Ballard, Atherton, PRP and Seneca would get the most.

MY point is that his view is incorrect. These kids do have a sense of pride. St.X and Trinity draw from all over, how is it any different??? Mr. Stewart is writing an opinion that is self serving to his interest as an employee of a private school. It would be to his advantage if many of the students and athletes that chose not to attend their home school did not have a choice of a top notch program that was free. That would limit their choice to private school or their home school.

 

You might be better saying that you disagree with his view, not that it is incorrect. I don’t believe you or I have the experience of history to compare the public school setting like Coach Stewart has. He has been around high school athletics for close to 50 years and has simply pointed out the changes that he thinks have taken place over those years.

 

I understand and agree with the point you raise about the importance of strong academic leadership that schools like Manual provide for our community, but the majority of public schools don’t come close to having the same since of pride or community that I have been told they once had. I don’t know if the problem started with bussing or with the creation of magnet type schools, but the point both Coach Stewart and I are trying to make is that the JCPS is attempting to blame this on the private schools as well as attempting to fix it by banning the private schools from athletic competition.

You might be better saying that you disagree with his view, not that it is incorrect. I don’t believe you or I have the experience of history to compare the public school setting like Coach Stewart has. He has been around high school athletics for close to 50 years and has simply pointed out the changes that have taken place over those years.

 

I understand and agree with the point you raise about the importance of strong academic leadership that schools like Manual provide for our community, but the majority of public schools don’t come close to having the same since of pride or community that I have been told they once had. I don’t know if the problem started with bussing or with the creation of magnet type schools, but the point both Coach Stewart and I are trying to make is that the JCPS is attempting to blame this on the private schools as well as attempting to fix it by banning the private schools from athletic competition.

No disrespect toward Stewart personally, but his recollection is incorrect if he thinks that Magnet schools have shifted the football power to the privates. It was already there, State titles bear that out clear as day as do the records. The public schools aren't blaming this on the Privates because it is something that started in 1984 with the Magnet programs. The fact is that his point is a made up view point by someone on the other side of the fence. The Private schools have been winning the most championships since Stewart has been around, his view of the good ol' days is in direct opposition to the records from the time period. Flaget, St.X and Trinity have had a winning tradition dateing back for his entire career, and many public schools have not had much success that entire time or some would have a bright decade here or a bad one there. To say that came along with busing or Magnet schools is plain fancy because the records don't bear out his view.

 

Moore, Atherton, Westport, Durrett, Doss, Valley, Iroquois, Shawnee, none of those schools had much success back then against the private schools. Manual, Male,PRP, Southern, Seneca, Butler, Ballard,Eastern, Fern Creek those schools have been up and down during his time. And they still are up and down same as before.

No disrespect toward Stewart personally, but his recollection is incorrect if he thinks that Magnet schools have shifted the football power to the privates. It was already there, State titles bear that out clear as day as do the records.

 

His remarks are not just about football. He is talking about the school community as a whole. What he was describing is the change in neighborhood support of these schools and how that carries over into all activities that these schools participate in. Look at all athletic events, not just football. Why do the private schools have such huge following compared to the public schools. Most of the public schools have the same if not a larger student population yet they have a fraction of the support both in the stands and behind the scenes. The idea of pride in these public schools is just not there like it once was.

His remarks are not just about football. He is talking about the school community as a whole. What he was describing is the change in neighborhood support of these schools and how that carries over into all activities that these schools participate in. Look at all athletic events, not just football. Why do the private schools have such huge following compared to the public schools. Most of the public schools have the same if not a larger student population yet they have a fraction of the support both in the stands and behind the scenes. The idea of pride in these public schools is just not there like it once was.

But that is not because of busing or Magnet schools. That is because there is a blue million thing to do on a Friday night now verses back then. St. X and Trinity pull from the same areas and further than Manual and Male, how is it they don't suffer? Manual has good crowds, especially if we are playing at home and against a big opponent. And while sometimes Manual is alittle unconventional in how manifests school spirit I can promise you there is alot of school pride. His comments just don't hold up to the facts. Nothing against him personally though, from his perpective it might make sense, but it really doesn't hold up.

School Pride is often judged by athletic events but it is much more important than that. Pride in ones community and school is reflected in every endeavor that is undertaken. I believe that Coach Stewart’s comments reflect on much more than athletic competition, they reflect directly on the success of the school in every thing that the school takes part in, graduation rates, test scores, athletics, etc.

 

Athletics is not education. We don't have schools to produce football players, we are producing everything, every type of person.

 

That is the scariest part of this discussion, not if public schools can compete in athletic events but a good number of them are also failing in the most important area, that being education.

School Pride is often judged by athletic events but it is much more important than that. Pride in ones community and school is reflected in every endeavor that is undertaken. I believe that Coach Stewart’s comments reflect on much more than athletic competition, they reflect directly on the success of the school in every thing that the school takes part in, graduation rates, test scores, athletics, etc.

 

 

 

That is the scariest part of this discussion, not if public schools can compete in athletic events but a good number of them are also failing in the most important area, that being education.

And again those aspects Manual and many other schools do very well. I mean of the four explayers that post on this board from Manual, three are Eagle scouts. There is alot of community and civic pride in the public schools.

Manual has good crowds, especially if we are playing at home and against a big opponent. And while sometimes Manual is alittle unconventional in how manifests school spirit I can promise you there is alot of school pride.

 

Manual is a terrific school and has a great support system but if you are going to represent the Public School side of this discussion you have to remove your self from the “Manual Scene” and look at the majority of public schools. The pride is not there and Coach Stewart's words are right on the money. Notice that he didn't go into the reason it's no longer there he just stated the observation.

School Pride is often judged by athletic events but it is much more important than that. Pride in ones community and school is reflected in every endeavor that is undertaken. I believe that Coach Stewart’s comments reflect on much more than athletic competition, they reflect directly on the success of the school in every thing that the school takes part in, graduation rates, test scores, athletics, etc.

 

 

 

That is the scariest part of this discussion, not if public schools can compete in athletic events but a good number of them are also failing in the most important area, that being education.

People talk about 'schools' failing, and I don't get it.

 

Isn't it the students making it or failing? Would spreading the Manual students help or hinder overall scores for the district? What would it do to the individual students' scores?

 

I believe that for both the district and for individual students, scores would suffer. For particular schools, their averages might increase slightly (According to ram95's formula, each school would end up with roughly 10 "Manual seniors" a year, if we forced all the ones going to public schools to spread out evenly,) but I think that's putting the cart before the horse.