gchs_uk9 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 I know we've had this conversation a couple times over the years and I thought today might be a good time to mention it again. Over the last month, Beth Haven and Evangel Christian have both suspended their programs due to a lack of numbers. The KHSAA sponsored an 8-man tournament for four years from 1999-2002. The following teams participated: Allen Central - 2000 Beth Haven - 1999, 2000, 2001 Bethlehem - 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 Caverna - 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 Eminence - 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 Jenkins - 2000, 2001, 2002 Kentucky Country Day - 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 Kentucky School f/t Deaf - 1999, 2000 Currently there 19 schools with under 150 boys in the school. Now certainly you wouldn't expect all of these schools to play 1A, but some might have better luck in building a program with an 8-man program. And if their numbers never grow, then they can stay in 8-man. The KHSAA could mandate a "lower-than" number than allows you to play 8-man, but any team could play up into regular 1A if their program was capable or perhaps if they were geographically isolated (think the two Fulton county schools). Here are the -150 schools in order from biggest to smallest: 1. Dayton 2. Fairview 3. Ludlow 4. Bethlehem 5. Kentucky Country Day 6. Harlan 7. Bellevue 8. Caverna 9. Fulton County 10. Williamsburg 11. Eminence 12. Paris 13. Paintsville 14. Pineville 15. Jenkins 16. Fulton City 17. Beth Haven (not playing) 18. Evangel Christian (not playing) 19. North Hardin Christian My question is, if there were an 8-man option, would more schools be able to maintain a program? Would that make the other classes stronger? What are you opinions and why?
Ram Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 I would be more for it if there were a majority of the schools that you mentioned that could not field a team. There are only two schools out of the smallest 19 that can not field an 11 man team. And many of them, have no problem at all fielding a team. My first thought is: is there a problem at the two schools that have caused them to drop their football team, other then size? Lack of funding, lack of support, lack of interest in the sport, another sport that over shadows football at that particular school? Just some random thoughts that I had. A big problem that I see with 8 man football is: if you have it, what kind of financial hardship is it going to cause for the schools involved? I ask this because, I don't see many 8 man football teams popping up in one geographical location. How would 8 man teams get games scheduled? Will they have to travel half way across the state to play regular season games? If this is to encompass the smallest of the small schools, are they going to be able to afford the travel expenses? These are some glaring questions that popped in my hear when I read your post.
Ram Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Another question, or statement, I don't think Beechwood is much bigger then Dayton or Fairview. That goes to show that it's not all numbers, it's more about focus on the sport. I realize that Beechwood is in an urban setting, and not a typical small school football program, but football is a priority there, and thrives. Beechwood may not be the best example, but we can use other programs as well, Raceland is mid-sized in 1A, we have no problem fielding a team, and the program thrives. Even Fairview, who is in the list above, has a decent sized team and the program is doing very well. Paintsville, is not the program that it once was, but does field a good sized team, and the problems at Paintsville have arisen from Johnson Central becoming a power football team (Johnson Central is located about a mile from Paintsville, for those that do not know). I understand that we are talking about the smallest of the small schools, but I don't think it has as much to with the numbers, unless a school only has, say 25 boys total, I think it has more to do with the focus of the sport, and if that is the case, I don't think 8 man football would garner much more of a response then 11 man football.
Deuce41 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 If you look at that list you see a couple of teams jump out on the list, Williamsburg for example; although having less than 150 boys in the school they compete pretty well every year, and just a last year played for a region championship, and should have a team that could make to that level this year. Paris is a team that back in the 80's had a 39 game winning streak. I think that it just takes the right coach at the right school who is willing to work hard and build the program and get the kids excited about playing. Smaller schools have to understand that sometimes it runs in cycles of being good then rebuilding. I guess what I am trying to say it is not the size of dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog.
gchs_uk9 Posted August 13, 2009 Author Posted August 13, 2009 These are all good points. Consolidation over the last 25 years has probably pushed the 8-man idea away for most schools anyway. My only thought would be the possibility of a few more schools fielding teams that don't right now. With that being said, and like Ram mentioned, their isolation would perhaps lead to scheduling difficulty, making the matter difficult to implement.
bugatti Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 It does not make geographical sense for the teams in Western Kentucky. In looking at that list, Fulton County and Fulton City are in close proximity to one another obviously. Beyond that, the closest team I assume would be Caverna. Caverna is 3+ hours from the Fulton Schools.
goaheadandjump Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Not sure about this list. There are other schools that would fit the less than 150 boys 9-12 criteria (Calvary, Heritage, Silver Grove just off the top of my head). These schools might consider starting a program at the 8 man level???????? Who knows!
gchs_uk9 Posted August 13, 2009 Author Posted August 13, 2009 Not sure about this list. There are other schools that would fit the less than 150 boys 9-12 criteria (Calvary, Heritage, Silver Grove just off the top of my head). These schools might consider starting a program at the 8 man level???????? Who knows! That was a possible thought when posting. Is there any interest from those smaller schools in fielding an 11-man team? Would they be more likely to field 8?
oldonetechnique Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 No to 8 man it will not help football grow in this state, if you can field 8 find 3 more and play real ball.
pigman Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Play a JV schedule in 11 man football until your numbers increase.
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