While I agree with many points you make this particular case was a prime example of why govt needed to get involved in passing new regulations. Sure, the people that lost money may have made poor decisions but that's not the real issue. The real issue is that a company that is publicly traded lied and hit liabilities/debt. It screws the concept of the market.

 

Secondly, you have one arm of an accounting firm giving investment advice while the same firm is also doing audit work where these shenanigans should have been discovered and disclosed.

 

I'll be totally responsible for my investments. I just want the govt to make sure that companies like Enron can't lie and companies like AA don't fail the investors.

 

 

Cylde, you raise a valid point which I don't disagree with. If a company illegally misleads its investors, they surely have blame. They are no different from the roofing contractor that steals money from the stupid homeowners that fail to check out the roofing contractor's credentials before they give the contractor money up front.

 

Doesn't your valid point actually support what I'm saying, as there will always be dishonest people and companies out there? Every one with an IQ of at least 50 should understand that. Which is exactly the reason that that a home owner or stock investor has to take the personal responsibility to do every possible thing they can to protect themself.

 

And while I support a certain level of rules, laws and regulation, I don't care how many rules, laws and regulations that the govt enacts, they can't possibly stop every illegality. All the more reason not to put all your eggs in one stock basket, isn't it?

 

Investing in the stock market has always and will always bring with it a certain level and degree of risks. Illegal activities by companies is one of those risks, as are economic down turns, bad management decisions, bad labor decisions, etc. Hence, the simple and age proven investment rule of diversification. A whole lot of Enron employees foolishly forgot that simple rule. I can agree that companies that engage in illegal activities that rip off investors have blame. I'd hope that you can agree that investors that don't act prudently also have blame.

I'm an accountant, I know EXACTLY what happened with Enron. It's because of them, I have to do twice as much work when conducting an audit. We don't need the government watching over us, companies just need to have better internal controls and checks and balances to make sure that kind of stuff doesn't happen again. That's what SOX accomplishes.

 

I'm talking about the workers too. They lost everything because they invested all their money in one company. If they had diversified, like a good investor should, they would have lost some, but would have still been afloat.

 

What you are saying is proving me right Mustang. You have to do double work, which if you are looking out for me, I would expect that. These people knew they were in trouble and never notified their workers and investors. They lied and kept lying to hide their faults. Look what happened in the end. Now you say Big Brother isn't needed then who is going to police these people and make sure it doesn't happen again. Oh my bad, things like this have happened once again and again and will keep happening until Big Brother takes over. I bet slavery would still be going on if Big Brother didn't step in huh??? A lot of people thought that the government shouldn't step in for that either.

What you are saying is proving me right Mustang. You have to do double work, which if you are looking out for me, I would expect that. These people knew they were in trouble and never notified their workers and investors. They lied and kept lying to hide their faults. Look what happened in the end. Now you say Big Brother isn't needed then who is going to police these people and make sure it doesn't happen again. Oh my bad, things like this have happened once again and again and will keep happening until Big Brother takes over. I bet slavery would still be going on if Big Brother didn't step in huh??? A lot of people thought that the government shouldn't step in for that either.

 

Actually until the advent of the Cotton Gin there were many prominent men in America(and some were slave-owners) who predicted that the cost-benefit of slavery on plantations would end up causing the practice to be discontinued because it just wasn't working anymore. The Cotton Gin changed that.

Cylde, you raise a valid point which I don't disagree with. If a company illegally misleads its investors, they surely have blame. They are no different from the roofing contractor that steals money from the stupid homeowners that fail to check out the roofing contractor's credentials before they give the contractor money up front.

 

Doesn't your valid point actually support what I'm saying, as there will always be dishonest people and companies out there? Every one with an IQ of at least 50 should understand that. Which is exactly the reason that that a home owner or stock investor has to take the personal responsibility to do every possible thing they can to protect themself.

 

And while I support a certain level of rules, laws and regulation, I don't care how many rules, laws and regulations that the govt enacts, they can't possibly stop every illegality. All the more reason not to put all your eggs in one stock basket, isn't it?

 

Investing in the stock market has always and will always bring with it a certain level and degree of risks. Illegal activities by companies is one of those risks, as are economic down turns, bad management decisions, bad labor decisions, etc. Hence, the simple and age proven investment rule of diversification. A whole lot of Enron employees foolishly forgot that simple rule. I can agree that companies that engage in illegal activities that rip off investors have blame. I'd hope that you can agree that investors that don't act prudently also have blame.

 

I think we're arguing different items. You're arguing for diversification. I'm arguing that there needs to be oversight of financial reporting and of those responsible for making sure the reporting is accurate. Enron shows we need it for both. Arthur Anderson failed to either catch it or report it. Enron lied about their financial position.

 

The stock market has created a lot of wealth in this country and should be taken advantage of by everyone. However, we need someone to be the overseer to make sure that we investors are working off of accurate info.

 

Lastly, some companies force you to put all of your company issued retirement investments into their stock. I'm not sure if that was the case with Enron.

Guys all I'm trying to say is that there are some crooked people in this world who are just money hungry and will do anything to obtain it. I believe in the best man or woman should get the job, period. I also believe that someone has to regulate not even regulate just watch over and make sure things are going alright.

What you are saying is proving me right Mustang. You have to do double work, which if you are looking out for me, I would expect that. These people knew they were in trouble and never notified their workers and investors. They lied and kept lying to hide their faults. Look what happened in the end. Now you say Big Brother isn't needed then who is going to police these people and make sure it doesn't happen again. Oh my bad, things like this have happened once again and again and will keep happening until Big Brother takes over. I bet slavery would still be going on if Big Brother didn't step in huh??? A lot of people thought that the government shouldn't step in for that either.

 

Big Brother isn't the one watching though. They put SOX into effect, but they aren't the ones doing the policing. That's done by an accounting organization. The name escapes me right now, but I know it's not governed by the government.

Big Brother isn't the one watching though. They put SOX into effect, but they aren't the ones doing the policing. That's done by an accounting organization. The name escapes me right now, but I know it's not governed by the government.

 

Public Company Accounting Oversight Board - officially a private organization but it has a lot of govt like authority.

Guys all I'm trying to say is that there are some crooked people in this world who are just money hungry and will do anything to obtain it. I believe in the best man or woman should get the job, period. I also believe that someone has to regulate not even regulate just watch over and make sure things are going alright.

 

Here is a question I have been pondering in regards to this:

 

What makes the government more inherently trustworthy than business to some people?

There is nothing wrong with sharing. But with whom and how much I "share" shouldn't be decided by the government.

:thumb: This sums it all up. Obama and his regime imo want nothing less than a complete government controlled society in every facet of our lives.

Putting it simply ................................................

 

Obama is a Socialist

Here is a question I have been pondering in regards to this:

 

What makes the government more inherently trustworthy than business to some people?

 

I believe that can also be answered with the last statement in post #69.