June 16, 200917 yr Please check the context of that message and to whom it is being said. I think you will find that it does not say what you think it says. But that is just silly oh me, trying to actually read the scripture. Well, would you be so kind to tell me what the verse means? It means that if anyone decides that they are going to bum off everyone else simply because they think that the Lord is coming again real soon and they don't need to work, but just sit on their butt with their hand stuck out, then don't feed them. They need to work with their own hands.
June 16, 200917 yr I agree with this to a point. We should help those who are trying to help themsevles. Perhaps working minimum wage jobs, raising families without health insurance. Those who are trying are not bums.
June 16, 200917 yr "Love your neighbor as yourself" I think someone important said this, but what do I know. We also have separation of church and state, what's your point?
June 16, 200917 yr We also have separation of church and state, what's your point?The point is very clear. Christianity has a very clear stance on the issue of whether people deserve help. I'm not saying it is UnAmerican not to assist the poor, but you better be able to convince St Peter when time comes around.
June 16, 200917 yr The point is very clear. Christianity has a very clear stance on the issue of whether people deserve help. I'm not saying it is UnAmerican not to assist the poor, but you better be able to convince St Peter when time comes around. While this has religious significance and I understand and support doing all in my power, your power or as a group to help those in need. But what do Christian principles have to do with the secular government?
June 16, 200917 yr So...Is there anything you think EVERYONE (exclude children) should be personally responsible for, other than giving your clothes away and paying taxes? Not my words, but the words of Jesus.
June 16, 200917 yr While this has religious significance and I understand and support doing all in my power, your power or as a group to help those in need. But what do Christian principles have to do with the secular government? The OP did not say anything about the government
June 17, 200917 yr Original Poster Ah, in my vernacular OP stands for Order of Preachers. I grew up in a Dominican Parish. As to what he meant, I assumed that he intended the government but I may have been incorrect.
June 17, 200917 yr Author Not my words, but the words of Jesus. I'm not asking Jesus, I'm asking you. Other than children, who is excluded from personal responsibility?
June 17, 200917 yr I'm not asking Jesus, I'm asking you. Other than children, who is excluded from personal responsibility? No one is excluded from personal responsibility, namely I am not excluded. My responsibility is to take care of those who are in need and those who ask for help. That is MY responsibility. I cannot judge someone else's responsibility and know whether or not they are fulfilling it, I can only know what mine is. What is YOUR responsibility in regards to others.
June 17, 200917 yr Those who are trying are not bums. This is going to come across sounding harsher than I mean it to, but I have some serious questions. What do we do with the "bums"? What would Jesus have us do? Walk on by them? Look down our noses at them and tell them to quit being lazy and get a job? Or do we "teach a man to fish"?
June 17, 200917 yr This is going to come across sounding harsher than I mean it to, but I have some serious questions. What do we do with the "bums"? What would Jesus have us do? Walk on by them? Look down our noses at them and tell them to quit being lazy and get a job? Or do we "teach a man to fish"? What do you suggest we do with bums? Would you like to give them all your belongings? If so, then come on down and I can hook you up with plenty that will take every dime you have. And you probably would not even hear a, "thank you", because they feel like you owe them. I can tell you what the Holy Spirit said through the Apostle Paul, "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busy bodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread." IIThess.3:10-12 Also read Prov.26:13-16. Slothfulness is marked by an aversion toward work and a spirit of laziness. A slothful man(bum) justifies his behavior in his own mind by making up a variety of excuses why he can't work. A slothful man(bum) is so conceited he thinks others should provide for him. It is a terrible shame that the symptoms of slothfulness abound in the U.S. Many children are handed everything without requiring them to work for it. Our current welfare system is often abused by lazy men who would rather sponge off the government than get a job. If people are unwilling to work they should not expect a free lunch. There is an old peom that reads: "A good for nothing lazy lout, Wicked within and ragged without, Who can bear to have him about? Turn him out! Turn him out! This is probably going to sound harsh but, what have you done for a bum today? I wonder if you have ever really dealt with bums. Have you ever had a bum come to your house and give some big sob story about how his children are hungry, when his only motive is to get money to buy cigarettes and alcohol? Have you ever had anyone to lie to you about their mommy being in the hosptial in pitiful shape and how they need money for gas to go see mommy, only to take the tank of gas to go somewhere else to party? Have you ever had a sorry man tell you that he doesn't have the money to feed himself or family, but fail to mention that the reason he is broke is because he blew it all on alcohol? That's a sorry bum! And by the way, before any "bleeding heart do gooders" on here say, "well what about the children?", we have taken care of many children in those situations. Our current welfare system has created this monster and its a disgrace. What have you done for a bum today? Also, there is hope for the bum, but he does not need to be encouraged in his sin, but rather rebuked and told to repent of his wickedness. Edited June 17, 200917 yr by IM4THEHOUNDS Add more
June 17, 200917 yr You didn't answer my question of "what do we do with the 'bums'." However, I will answer yours: What do I suggest we do? 1) Love them. 2) Help take care of their immediate needs. 3) Help educate them, i.e., "teach a man to fish." 4) Help him/her see Christ through me. Not in the form of denouncing/criticizing/judging, but by what I do and how I treat others. You asked a lot about what I do personally. I'm not looking for personal accolades, so I'm going to skip the details. Let it suffice to say that I help the poor without qualification. I don't check to see if they are "bums" or not first. I have dealt with the thankless and the untruthfulness of some, but that's not a reason to not help the next one. Upon second glance, I guess that you did answer my question - "rebuke and tell them to repent of his wickedness." We'll just have to disagree on this one, I guess.
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