It's really pretty simple. To many, abortion is wrong and a sin, but Pope John Paul II spoke out against the war in Iraq. How can a priest deny communion to people that voted for Obama, but not deny it for those that voted for McCain, who voted for the war that the Pope denounced?

Because McCain didn't give the executive order to go into Iraq?

It's really pretty simple. To many, abortion is wrong and a sin, but Pope John Paul II spoke out against the war in Iraq. How can a priest deny communion to people that voted for Obama, but not deny it for those that voted for McCain, who voted for the war that the Pope denounced?

 

 

I think I already covered that earlier.

Because McCain didn't give the executive order to go into Iraq?

 

True, but he did vote for it.

I think I already covered that earlier.

 

It was discussed, but I don't think the discussion came to an "agreement" point.

 

BTW, I probably should know this, but does the CC excuse abortion in the cases of rape or incest?

This priest needs to go back to school and try opening a book. The Church's teaching on abortion is clear; the Church's teaching on the informed conscience of a voter: decidedly less so. While no issue is more fundamental than the right to life and it trumps all other issues, there are still other issues.

 

As it is immoral to be a politician and support pro-choice causes, the Catholic Church would also say that it is immoral to vote for someone because of their pro-choice leanings. BUT it may be possible to vote for a candidate in spite of their pro-choice position. While the Catholic Church stands steadfastly beside the pro-life stance also taken by the Republican Party, the Church is equally steadfast in its opposition to capital punishment (which is overwhelmingly supported by Republican candidates) and the percieved hawkish tendencies of many members of the GOP which seemed to have dominated the outgoing administration.

 

If this priest wishes to deny communion to politicians who have openly voiced their support of abortion rights and members of the public whom he knows to support abortion rights, then fine... I'll even stand beside him in his efforts. But to criticize the informed conscience of voters whom he likely does not even know... this guy should be chucked behind a desk at the diocese office so he can't speak to the public anymore.

 

Again, the Catholic Church DOES NOT teach that you are not permitted to vote for a candidate because of his or her pro-choice beliefs. And while it is not clear, teaching may well permit that it is acceptable to vote for a candidate IN SPITE of such a position. If anyone out there is looking for the candidate that supports all positions shared by the Catholic Church, you're going to be looking for a very, very long time.

A recent article regarding this subject

It's really pretty simple. To many, abortion is wrong and a sin, but Pope John Paul II spoke out against the war in Iraq. How can a priest deny communion to people that voted for Obama, but not deny it for those that voted for McCain, who voted for the war that the Pope denounced?

I agree with what you were saying, I wish that the clergy would take a stance more often to try to inform the congregation about the seriousness of all of the political issues that intertwine with our morality. AS I mentioned earlier, I think that the reason abortion receives so much more attention is proportionality.

This priest needs to go back to school and try opening a book. The Church's teaching on abortion is clear; the Church's teaching on the informed conscience of a voter: decidedly less so. While no issue is more fundamental than the right to life and it trumps all other issues, there are still other issues.

 

As it is immoral to be a politician and support pro-choice causes, the Catholic Church would also say that it is immoral to vote for someone because of their pro-choice leanings. BUT it may be possible to vote for a candidate in spite of their pro-choice position. While the Catholic Church stands steadfastly beside the pro-life stance also taken by the Republican Party, the Church is equally steadfast in its opposition to capital punishment (which is overwhelmingly supported by Republican candidates) and the percieved hawkish tendencies of many members of the GOP which seemed to have dominated the outgoing administration.

 

If this priest wishes to deny communion to politicians who have openly voiced their support of abortion rights and members of the public whom he knows to support abortion rights, then fine... I'll even stand beside him in his efforts. But to criticize the informed conscience of voters whom he likely does not even know... this guy should be chucked behind a desk at the diocese office so he can't speak to the public anymore.

 

Again, the Catholic Church DOES NOT teach that you are not permitted to vote for a candidate because of his or her pro-choice beliefs. And while it is not clear, teaching may well permit that it is acceptable to vote for a candidate IN SPITE of such a position. If anyone out there is looking for the candidate that supports all positions shared by the Catholic Church, you're going to be looking for a very, very long time.

It is getting down to semantics, but the priest did not say that he would deny communion to an Obama supporter. He said that they should "refrain from receiving Communion." I think what he wants is for people who openly support candidates who look to expand infanticide to examine their voting decision. Nevertheless, I agree with what you are saying about the conscience of a voter, well-explained like always.

It was discussed, but I don't think the discussion came to an "agreement" point.

 

BTW, I probably should know this, but does the CC excuse abortion in the cases of rape or incest?

 

Absolutely not. Abortion is murder and disrespectful to God's gift of life in all cases.

 

In the event of danger of the life of the mother, premature delivery is allowed but every attempt must be made to save the infant's life.

I agree with the Priest's stance 100%. I wish priests took stances like this more often. I am not expert on the various intrinsic qualities that make a sin mortal or venial, but I wish that the clergy would take more hard-line stances on when and when not to receive. The Body of Christ is a gift that is often taken for granted, even by Catholics.

The more I think about it (and especially from reading Getslow's post), I think this statement is a bit unclear.

 

I agree with the priest's point in that supporting abortion results in not receiving Communion, but it is possible to support a candidate in spite of his/her stance on abortion. The priest (and I) should have been more clear in his statement.

 

Regardless, I wish people respected the receiving of the Body of Christ more often.

Regardless, I wish people respected the receiving of the Body of Christ more often.

 

Agreed. It is far and away the most sacred, most precious and most important sacrament given to us during Christ's time on Earth. It is not a thing to be taken lightly.

To the bolded:

 

I admit I struggle with it. I still try to vote my faith when I can, but I often find myself failing. I fail because I look at this world and international policy from a Machiavellian point of view which is inherently amoral. I struggle and hope that one day I can actually forgo the concerns of the world and truly vote and live my faith as I should live it.

 

Amen. Additionally, it's impossible for a priest to make this statement. Until it comes from the Pope, who is this guy to deny communion? Abortion is murder, but I don't see how I'm supporting it if I vote for a guy with whom I hold agreeable economic views. Voting for a candidate b/c you like his/her stance on 1 issue is very dangerous. In my opinion, you've committed the sin of murder through abortion A. if you've received one, B. or you have facilitated a person to get one either through persuasion or threat. I don't see where this priest is coming from. My wife isn't getting one, and I would never reign down my mexi-terror on her to get one.

This priest needs to go back to school and try opening a book. The Church's teaching on abortion is clear; the Church's teaching on the informed conscience of a voter: decidedly less so. While no issue is more fundamental than the right to life and it trumps all other issues, there are still other issues.

 

As it is immoral to be a politician and support pro-choice causes, the Catholic Church would also say that it is immoral to vote for someone because of their pro-choice leanings. BUT it may be possible to vote for a candidate in spite of their pro-choice position. While the Catholic Church stands steadfastly beside the pro-life stance also taken by the Republican Party, the Church is equally steadfast in its opposition to capital punishment (which is overwhelmingly supported by Republican candidates) and the percieved hawkish tendencies of many members of the GOP which seemed to have dominated the outgoing administration.

 

If this priest wishes to deny communion to politicians who have openly voiced their support of abortion rights and members of the public whom he knows to support abortion rights, then fine... I'll even stand beside him in his efforts. But to criticize the informed conscience of voters whom he likely does not even know... this guy should be chucked behind a desk at the diocese office so he can't speak to the public anymore.

 

Again, the Catholic Church DOES NOT teach that you are not permitted to vote for a candidate because of his or her pro-choice beliefs. And while it is not clear, teaching may well permit that it is acceptable to vote for a candidate IN SPITE of such a position. If anyone out there is looking for the candidate that supports all positions shared by the Catholic Church, you're going to be looking for a very, very long time.

 

Great post.

Additionally, it's impossible for a priest to make this statement. Until it comes from the Pope, who is this guy to deny communion?

 

You (or Getslow) may know better than me, but is that true?

You (or Getslow) may know better than me, but is that true?

 

How can a priest make a law for the whole church? He may ban his parishoners, but the church in the next city won't, and I'm sure he's been talked to by the bishop already.

How can a priest make a law for the whole church? He may ban his parishoners, but the church in the next city won't, and I'm sure he's been talked to by the bishop already.

I was talking about the priest's right to deny communion to someone in a particular instance. I know, for example, that a priest can give you a dispensation from attending your Sunday obligation to attend Mass. Can a Priest deny an individual Communion? Getslow?