I struggle seeing how voting for someone who is pro_choice is the same a committing abortion. The CC is pro-life, fine then work to reduce unwanted pregnancy and abortions, and the parishioners shouldn't choose abortion for themselves. But to tell people they have sinned by casting a vote . . . I don't know. I don't think the president performs abortions nor do I think there will be any legislation that will come before him one way or another. The only impact will be on the judges, and then it will be their conscience not his. A vote has now become a sin - wow

 

 

LBBC and other people who are stauchly pro-life can give you a better response here than I can. I am merely pointing out the priest's perspective on this matter. A vote is not inherently a sin, voting for someone who does not respect human life and who does/will not attempt to prevent such disregard for human life from occurring is in essence condoning said actions.

 

I wouldn't have necessarily said it, but the fact remains that the Church's teachings are consistent on this subject.

 

I don't vote my faith many times. In fact I probably should go to confession for voting for candidates that support the death penalty or who do not attempt to eradicate abortion or have supported the stationing of troops and armed forces anywhere. The Church believes that all life is sacred, the Church teaches that all life is sacred. Should this priest have mentioned those other two? Possibly, yes. I just don't understand why people are getting bent out of shape for a priest saying what has always been the case.

 

Your beliefs may not lead you to that conclusion, however that is the Church's stance. Like it or not the Church is consistent on preservation and protection of human life.

I voted for Obama and I will still take communion and still believe I have committed no sin for casting my vote. Some people better quit their harsh judgements or they may not like the way that Christ judge them.

 

This is just one whack job of a Priest. Let them all follow his lead and see how many churches stay open.

It's so easy to throw out excuses for the parts of the faith one wants to dismiss. It's so hard to follow with pure faith and devotion.

LBBC and other people who are stauchly pro-life can give you a better response here than I can. I am merely pointing out the priest's perspective on this matter. A vote is not inherently a sin, voting for someone who does not respect human life and who does/will not attempt to prevent such disregard for human life from occurring is in essence condoning said actions.

 

I wouldn't have necessarily said it, but the fact remains that the Church's teachings are consistent on this subject.

 

I don't vote my faith many times. In fact I probably should go to confession for voting for candidates that support the death penalty or who do not attempt to eradicate abortion or have supported the stationing of troops and armed forces anywhere. The Church believes that all life is sacred, the Church teaches that all life is sacred. Should this priest have mentioned those other two? Possibly, yes. I just don't understand why people are getting bent out of shape for a priest saying what has always been the case.

 

Your beliefs may not lead you to that conclusion, however that is the Church's stance. Like it or not the Church is consistent on preservation and protection of human life.

 

I am not questioning the Church's stance on abortion, but in essence, Catholics should not have voted in this election. You can stretch it all you want, but what is going on in IRAQ is not a "just war" and there is no way the writings of Augustine could be construed to suggest that it is, heck, it is not even a WAR. Given that there is no way a Catholic in good conscience could vote for McCain.

 

Being pro-choice does not by definition lead to anyone getting an abortion.

 

Sending troops to battle, by definition leads to death.

It's so easy to throw out excuses for the parts of the faith one wants to dismiss. It's so hard to follow with pure faith and devotion.

 

To the bolded:

 

I admit I struggle with it. I still try to vote my faith when I can, but I often find myself failing. I fail because I look at this world and international policy from a Machiavellian point of view which is inherently amoral. I struggle and hope that one day I can actually forgo the concerns of the world and truly vote and live my faith as I should live it.

I am not questioning the Church's stance on abortion, but in essence, Catholics should not have voted in this election. You can stretch it all you want, but what is going on in IRAQ is not a "just war" and there is no way the writings of Augustine could be construed to suggest that it is, heck, it is not even a WAR. Given that there is no way a Catholic in good conscience could vote for McCain.

 

Being pro-choice does not by definition lead to anyone getting an abortion.

 

Sending troops to battle, by definition leads to death.

Voting pro-choice is in essence giving one a license to kill IMO, in turn, it makes those that vote pro-choice as guilty. JMHO.

I am not questioning the Church's stance on abortion, but in essence, Catholics should not have voted in this election. You can stretch it all you want, but what is going on in IRAQ is not a "just war" and there is no way the writings of Augustine could be construed to suggest that it is, heck, it is not even a WAR. Given that there is no way a Catholic in good conscience could vote for McCain.

 

Being pro-choice does not by definition lead to anyone getting an abortion.

 

Sending troops to battle, by definition leads to death.

The Iraqis who lost hands, ears, and other appendages or who had relatives buried in one of Saddam's mass graves might disagree with you on whether the Iraq War is just. I doubt that the CC would agree that any abortion is just. There is no gray area to the conscious, deliberate slaughter of millions of unborn babies that will occur during the next four years.

To the bolded:

 

I admit I struggle with it. I still try to vote my faith when I can, but I often find myself failing. I fail because I look at this world and international policy from a Machiavellian point of view which is inherently amoral. I struggle and hope that one day I can actually forgo the concerns of the world and truly vote and live my faith as I should live it.

I too struggle with it, I often opt to my human wants or needs rather than my spiritual. That's why I'm thankful for confession.

I am not questioning the Church's stance on abortion, but in essence, Catholics should not have voted in this election. You can stretch it all you want, but what is going on in IRAQ is not a "just war" and there is no way the writings of Augustine could be construed to suggest that it is, heck, it is not even a WAR. Given that there is no way a Catholic in good conscience could vote for McCain.

 

Being pro-choice does not by definition lead to anyone getting an abortion.

 

Sending troops to battle, by definition leads to death.

 

I think I actually made the point in the post you quoted in regardds to that. I am aware that the Church is pacifistic, and that what constitutes a just war rarely will occur.

 

In fact I probably should go to confession for voting for candidates that support the death penalty or who do not attempt to eradicate abortion or have supported the stationing of troops and armed forces anywhere.

 

Right there I acknowledged that. You won't need to be preaching the Church's stance to me on much of anything Ace. I am aware of it, much like any Catholic who voted for Obama should be aware of the Church's positions on the things that he supports.

 

 

Honestly I often feel, after voting, that I need to go to confession. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for an evil. :lol:

The Iraqis who lost hands, ears, and other appendages or who had relatives buried in one of Saddam's mass graves might disagree with you on whether the Iraq War is just. I doubt that the CC would agree that any abortion is just. There is no gray area to the conscious, deliberate slaughter of millions of unborn babies that will occur in the next four years.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Absolute tenets of Christianity are not open to debate. You may make your "cafeteria" choices but you are responsible for those choices.

 

Obama is not merely pro-choice. He is the most extremely pro-abortion person to ever seek the presidency. His administration will see great increases in both anti-life rights and deaths of the preborn. To say that one will not have to answer for supporting, passively or actively, such an agenda is foolish and naive.

 

Some truths cannot be swept away even by the deceptive Obama. He is dangerous.

For what it is worth, I am here to defend the Church and nothing else. I am not posting in here to say anything negative about a party or candidate.

The Iraqis who lost hands, ears, and other appendages or who had relatives buried in one of Saddam's mass graves might disagree with you on whether the Iraq War is just. I doubt that the CC would agree that any abortion is just. There is no gray area to the conscious, deliberate slaughter of millions of unborn babies that will occur during the next four years.

 

What about the innocent Iraqi's who lost hands, ears, and other appendages and were killed by bullets and bombs at the hands of American forces?

I think I actually made the point in the post you quoted in regardds to that. I am aware that the Church is pacifistic, and that what constitutes a just war rarely will occur.

 

 

 

Right there I acknowledged that. You won't need to be preaching the Church's stance to me on much of anything Ace. I am aware of it, much like any Catholic who voted for Obama should be aware of the Church's positions on the things that he supports.

 

 

Honestly I often feel, after voting, that I need to go to confession. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for an evil. :lol:

 

This may be a topic for another thread, but despite most, if not all religions claims to pacificism; isn't religion at the root of virtually all conflicts and wars, and certainly all the unrest in the Middle East for the last couple thousand years??

What about the innocent Iraqi's who lost hands, ears, and other appendages and were killed by bullets and bombs at the hands of American forces?

Do you believe that was intentional? I'll answer for you, no you didn't, but it's a sad reality of any war.

This may be a topic for another thread, but despite most, if not all religions claims to pacificism; isn't religion at the root of virtually all conflicts and wars, and certainly all the unrest in the Middle East for the last couple thousand years??

Good point and you should definitely make a thread about it, I think it would be a good topic.