November 11, 200817 yr So are we all saying the Reds are so talent poor, they can't pull off these types of deals. Should I hope my grandchildren get to see a playoff team here, because my kids haven't. BTW Walt Jockety is the GM, lets see if he's worth a pound of salt.
November 11, 200817 yr So are we all saying the Reds are so talent poor, they can't pull off these types of deals. Should I hope my grandchildren get to see a playoff team here, because my kids haven't. BTW Walt Jockety is the GM, lets see if he's worth a pound of salt. Theres a reason he's the GM and you, me, or anyone else on here is not
November 11, 200817 yr Theres a reason he's the GM and you, me, or anyone else on here is not The past GMs sort of refute that statement. Jockety deserves his chance though.
November 11, 200817 yr So are we all saying the Reds are so talent poor, they can't pull off these types of deals. Should I hope my grandchildren get to see a playoff team here, because my kids haven't. BTW Walt Jockety is the GM, lets see if he's worth a pound of salt. Who is saying that? I have a lot of faith in Walt Jocketty and I think the Reds' have a lot of talent. That's why I would NOT have traded for Matt Holliday. Matt Holliday is, undoubtedly, a good hitter. He's had some great years in Colorado and he is the type of force that the Reds would benefit from having in their lineup everyday. With that said, the Reds are not in a position to be trading young guns for a bat like Holliday's. We have plenty of young talent in Cincinnati and I am excited about watching them play and gain experience together. Once again, you avoided my question. Who would you have offered to the Rockies for Matt Holliday?
November 11, 200817 yr Who is saying that? I have a lot of faith in Walt Jocketty and I think the Reds' have a lot of talent. That's why I would NOT have traded for Matt Holliday. Matt Holliday is, undoubtedly, a good hitter. He's had some great years in Colorado and he is the type of force that the Reds would benefit from having in their lineup everyday. With that said, the Reds are not in a position to be trading young guns for a bat like Holliday's. We have plenty of young talent in Cincinnati and I am excited about watching them play and gain experience together. Once again, you avoided my question. Who would you have offered to the Rockies for Matt Holliday? Harang, Burton and Dickerson. If Harang's salary hangs it up. Owings or Thompson would suffice. Now would that deal fly, I don't know, but these guys are somewhat comparable to what Oakland gave up. Because they are in the same league usually doesn't mean as much as if they were in the same division, so I'm not sure they would have to offer more than Oak. I am not for giving up the farm for a guy like Holliday, but I don't believe Oakland did, so it can be done. I'm just hoping Walt doesn't get stuck in the we're pretty good and lets stand pat mode that has befallen the previous GMs here. I pretty much just wish the Reds would field a winner in 09.
November 11, 200817 yr Harang, Burton and Dickerson. If Harang's salary hangs it up. Owings or Thompson would suffice. Now would that deal fly, I don't know, but these guys are somewhat comparable to what Oakland gave up. Because they are in the same league usually doesn't mean as much as if they were in the same division, so I'm not sure they would have to offer more than Oak. I am not for giving up the farm for a guy like Holliday, but I don't believe Oakland did, so it can be done. I'm just hoping Walt doesn't get stuck in the we're pretty good and lets stand pat mode that has befallen the previous GMs here. I pretty much just wish the Reds would field a winner in 09. So you would have offered our #1 pitcher and our best reliever? I'm hoping the Reds will field a winner in '09 as well; however, I'm not willing to sacrifice '10 and '11 and so on for a guy like Matt Holliday. The Cincinnati sports fans never cease to amaze me. For far too long we've had nothing but a powerful lineup. The majority of fans complain because pitching wins championships and we don't have any. Now that we're finally putting together a solid rotation and a complete pitching staff, Cincinnati fans are chomping at the bit to trade some of their pitching talent & prospects. And it's NOT the pitchers that we should be trying to trade (see David Weathers & Francisco Cordero).
November 11, 200817 yr So you would have offered our #1 pitcher and our best reliever? I'm hoping the Reds will field a winner in '09 as well; however, I'm not willing to sacrifice '10 and '11 and so on for a guy like Matt Holliday. The Cincinnati sports fans never cease to amaze me. For far too long we've had nothing but a powerful lineup. The majority of fans complain because pitching wins championships and we don't have any. Now that we're finally putting together a solid rotation and a complete pitching staff, Cincinnati fans are chomping at the bit to trade some of their pitching talent & prospects. And it's NOT the pitchers that we should be trying to trade (see David Weathers & Francisco Cordero). Harang will not be the #1 in 09, and I'm going to guess he won't be here in 10 or 11. Burton's good but what makes him the best reliever the Reds have? Keep in mind he's a righty. The Reds are saddled with Cordero, and Weathers just recieved his AARP card. The Reds main issue is they are still riddled with players that are just not very good. The Reds do have the makings of a solid rotation, but you still have to score runs. I'm getting tired of this, so as Reds fans, can we just want the same thing, a winning team. Aren't we sick and tired of what seems to be an eternity of losing in this city?
November 11, 200817 yr The thing is this ... not only do you have to give up a good deal of young talent for Holliday, you have to pony up a big-money contract to keep him for more than one year. I don't know that the Reds have enough young talent to spare to make that kind of move.
November 11, 200817 yr So you would have offered our #1 pitcher and our best reliever? I'm hoping the Reds will field a winner in '09 as well; however, I'm not willing to sacrifice '10 and '11 and so on for a guy like Matt Holliday. The Cincinnati sports fans never cease to amaze me. For far too long we've had nothing but a powerful lineup. The majority of fans complain because pitching wins championships and we don't have any. Now that we're finally putting together a solid rotation and a complete pitching staff, Cincinnati fans are chomping at the bit to trade some of their pitching talent & prospects. And it's NOT the pitchers that we should be trying to trade (see David Weathers & Francisco Cordero). :thumb:
November 11, 200817 yr Here is a little trick I learned long ago to evaluate hitters in Colorado. Take two years of road-game stats and put them together to form a season stat line. These are Holiiday's totals (example ... his "2008" stats are combined road numbers from 2007 and 2008) ... Year ... Avg-HR-RBI 2005 ... .249-11-56 2006 ... .270-19-71 2007 ... .291-23-91 2008 ... .304-21-84 Those are good, steadily improving numbers ... but they aren't superstar numbers, and Holliday will be 29 in January, which means he has likely already hit his peak and will start to decline within two or three years.
November 11, 200817 yr Here is a little trick I learned long ago to evaluate hitters in Colorado. Take two years of road-game stats and put them together to form a season stat line. These are Holiiday's totals (example ... his "2008" stats are combined road numbers from 2007 and 2008) ... Year ... Avg-HR-RBI 2005 ... .249-11-56 2006 ... .270-19-71 2007 ... .291-23-91 2008 ... .304-21-84 Those are good, steadily improving numbers ... but they aren't superstar numbers, and Holliday will be 29 in January, which means he has likely already hit his peak and will start to decline within two or three years. :thumb:
November 12, 200817 yr Here is a little trick I learned long ago to evaluate hitters in Colorado. Take two years of road-game stats and put them together to form a season stat line. These are Holiiday's totals (example ... his "2008" stats are combined road numbers from 2007 and 2008) ... Year ... Avg-HR-RBI 2005 ... .249-11-56 2006 ... .270-19-71 2007 ... .291-23-91 2008 ... .304-21-84 Those are good, steadily improving numbers ... but they aren't superstar numbers, and Holliday will be 29 in January, which means he has likely already hit his peak and will start to decline within two or three years. Those are still pretty solid numbers. It will be interesting to see how long players will last now without the steroids and whatever supplements they were taking. It was not too long ago that being 29 was considered entering the prime of your career as a hitter. I'd have no problem offering somebody who is 29 a long-term contract.
November 12, 200817 yr Those are still pretty solid numbers. It will be interesting to see how long players will last now without the steroids and whatever supplements they were taking. It was not too long ago that being 29 was considered entering the prime of your career as a hitter. I'd have no problem offering somebody who is 29 a long-term contract. Depends on how long-term you're talking and how much money is involved. Two or three years, maybe ... five or more, probably not.
November 12, 200817 yr Depends on how long-term you're talking and how much money is involved. Two or three years, maybe ... five or more, probably not. You don't think Matt Holliday will continue to produce when he's 34? :confused: A team will not sign Matt Holliday to a 2 or 3 year deal. It'll take more than that to attract him to any team.
November 12, 200817 yr You don't think Matt Holliday will continue to produce when he's 34? :confused:Not enough to be worth the money he is likely to command on the market ...
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