What you call Idealistic Drivel is what keeps our society from sinking back 400 years and pillaging and raping conquered lands. Terrorists and murder's are that because of the methods they use. We cannot condemn their methods one minute and then use them ourselves for the "greater good". Once we go down that path, then there will be no turning back untill one day we are the ones murdering innocents and driving bombs into buildings;all for the good of America.

 

That day is here. It's called abortion. It doesnt' get any more innocent than that.

So, in your value system, we can't eliminate human cancers who willingly commit vicious acts of animalistic barbarity from our society, but we can slice and dice and suction the brains out of innocent humans in their mother's wombs and that makes us virtuous?

 

Not human's...it is a fetus. I consider it human the minute it is born. Any time before that it is a part of the mother's body and her's to do with as she pleases.

 

So yes that is my value system;it works for me as I am sure yours works for you.

That day is here. It's called abortion. It doesnt' get any more innocent than that.

 

Then I assume if you believe that then you realize that using methods of torture as a means of retribution or punishment would only push on further down that path.

What you call Idealistic Drivel is what keeps our society from sinking back 400 years and pillaging and raping conquered lands. Terrorists and murder's are that because of the methods they use. We cannot condemn their methods one minute and then use them ourselves for the "greater good". Once we go down that path, then there will be no turning back untill one day we are the ones murdering innocents and driving bombs into buildings;all for the good of America.

 

So the slippery slope applies here but not with abortion? Interesting.

 

Not that abortion is an issue for me as I never vote according to a stance on abortion.

 

I am not the type to advocate it for speeding, reckless driving, cutting the tags off of mattresses or anything like that. However in cases Like this I don't mind it.

 

Don't give me the whole "better than that" crap. These ideals against such types of punishment in select settings are ingrained and indoctrinated into us from an early age be it by society or religious upbringing. It is done, largely, to keep from having society as a whole like that. I respect and understand that, having a few people in society that work for the betterment of said society behind the scenes by doing the little dirty things that may be needed at one point or another is something else entirely. Sometimes dirty work (not sanitation crews) is needed.

 

I don't mind the idea of covert operations to assassinate world leaders who are problematic for the United States or who threaten stability in one place or another where we have interests. I have no problem with using "questionable methods" to achieve a goal for the greater good outside of the Unites States. I am very much an admirer of Otto Von Bismark practical application of reopolitik.

 

Please avoid trying to lecture me on history of any sort as well, I know it better than most. So our society 400 years ago in 1608, eh? Outside of minimal settlement in the United States there wasn't as much "raping and pillaging" as you cited there. In fact at that point in time most American settlers were either engaging peaceably with the native peoples or defending themselves against raids by said natives. Not that I ascribe any good or evil to any action as in many cases they were seen as necessary by the people's involved.

 

Besides the concept of "condeming a muderer's act" and then using it is actually a rather bemusing comment to me. A murderer isolates himself(or herself) from society by their actions, as such they are fair game.

So the slippery slope applies here but not with abortion? Interesting.

 

Not that abortion is an issue for me as I never vote according to a stance on abortion.

 

I am not the type to advocate it for speeding, reckless driving, cutting the tags off of mattresses or anything like that. However in cases Like this I don't mind it.

 

Don't give me the whole "better than that" crap. These ideals against such types of punishment in select settings are ingrained and indoctrinated into us from an early age be it by society or religious upbringing. It is done, largely, to keep from having society as a whole like that. I respect and understand that, having a few people in society that work for the betterment of said society behind the scenes by doing the little dirty things that may be needed at one point or another is something else entirely. Sometimes dirty work (not sanitation crews) is needed.

 

I don't mind the idea of covert operations to assassinate world leaders who are problematic for the United States or who threaten stability in one place or another where we have interests. I have no problem with using "questionable methods" to achieve a goal for the greater good outside of the Unites States. I am very much an admirer of Otto Von Bismark practical application of reopolitik.

 

Please avoid trying to lecture me on history of any sort as well, I know it better than most. So our society 400 years ago in 1608, eh? Outside of minimal settlement in the United States there wasn't as much "raping and pillaging" as you cited there. In fact at that point in time most American settlers were either engaging peaceably with the native peoples or defending themselves against raids by said natives. Not that I ascribe any good or evil to any action as in many cases they were seen as necessary by the people's involved.

 

Besides the concept of "condeming a muderer's act" and then using it is actually a rather bemusing comment to me. A murderer isolates himself(or herself) from society by their actions, as such they are fair game.

 

400 years was arbitrary number meant to represent a large number of years ago.

The ends never ever justify the means. Isn't it the bible that says something to the affect of "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but to lose his soul".

Not human's...it is a fetus. I consider it human the minute it is born. Any time before that it is a part of the mother's body and her's to do with as she pleases.

What about an infant connected orally to its mother's breast, still drawing its nourishment from its mother's body? Is it nothing more than a parasitic mass of cells then? What if it's mother really doesn't want it then? Is it okay for mom to rip it to shreds and toss it in a dumpster?

 

That makes as much sense to me as defining a fetus as a "mass of parasitic cells".

 

So yes that is my value system;it works for me as I am sure yours works for you.

You show me any recorded propensity of human fetuses to emerge from their human mother's wombs as dogs, ducks, seals or simply as livers, kidneys or other singular organs and I might possibly grasp a small fraction of your reasoning here. Or, show me a significant portion of infants that emerge fully capable of independent reasoning and survival without the need for a mother's care and I might concede your point.

 

The fact that every human fetus emerges as a human infant wholly dependent upon its mother's (or another caring adult's) tender care, and the only distinguishing difference is a matter of location and time, (one is inside, the other is outside) leads me to believe that you and others of your particular mindset are in a serious and willing position of denial.

 

If your position was genuinely harmless, I could overlook it with a chuckle. The fact that more than one million fellow human beings are put to death every year in this country because of people who share your position makes it very harmful indeed.

Not human's...it is a fetus. I consider it human the minute it is born. Any time before that it is a part of the mother's body and her's to do with as she pleases.

 

So yes that is my value system;it works for me as I am sure yours works for you.

 

A doctor who performs appendectomies on healthy people and removes healthy tissue would be called a butcher, lose his license and possibly be jailed.

 

A doctor who stops a beating heart in utero is no less a butcher and no less bereft of any moral value in my mind.

400 years was arbitrary number meant to represent a large number of years ago.

The ends never ever justify the means. Isn't it the bible that says something to the affect of "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but to lose his soul".

 

 

I am not LBBC, bible quotes mean little to me in these types of discussions.

Gooch, for what it's worth this is one of those things that I told you we would never see eye to eye on. :lol:

Gooch, for what it's worth this is one of those things that I told you we would never see eye to eye on. :lol:

 

I know...I can agree to disagree...if we agree that I am right and that you will never disagree.

 

lol I still like ya Peprock! :ylsuper:

I know...I can agree to disagree...if we agree that I am right and that you will never disagree.

 

lol I still like ya Peprock! :ylsuper:

 

Pep's school of thinking has a great way to solve disputes, but sadly duels are frowned upon in modern American society, as is stealthy elimination of opposition. :lol:

 

 

I bear you no ill will just for the record. :thumb:

 

Don't want anyone thinking I am staking outside your house like a commando or anything, I'm not that stealthy. :lol:

The world is just a little better place this morning.

 

Medellin executed for rape, murder of Houston teens

 

The crime was committed in 1993 so it has only taken 15 years to execute this animal. This is part of what is wrong with the way that the death penalty is used today. It would be much better if fewer people were sentenced to death but sentences were carried out within 15 months instead of 15 years.

An eye for an eye and we all go blind

An eye for an eye and we all go blind

 

 

And turn the other cheek leaves you with two bruised cheeks.

An eye for an eye and we all go blind

It is so amusing when proponents of abortion of innocent unborn babies on demand attack the death penalty. There may be many eyes lost if abortion victims get justice in the hereafter.